How Can Childhood Trauma Be Healed and Reclaimed? - Ann

Childhood Abuse. Healing. Resilience.

Ann Marie Conklin, a survivor of childhood sexual abuse and trauma, shares her courageous journey of healing and personal growth. She opens up about the abuse, neglect, and challenges she endured, including her time in an orphanage and her survival of a sociopathic sibling.

Through resilience, therapy, and education, including two master’s degrees in psychology and licensure as a psychotherapist, Ann Marie has transformed her pain into purpose. She now dedicates her life to supporting trauma survivors, providing guidance, advocacy, and hope to those on their path to recovery.

National Child Abuse Hotline 1-800-4-A-CHILD

To learn more about Ann Marie and her book, The Grave For The Devil:
https://www.agraveforthedevil.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/a_grave_for_the_devil/

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Book: Why I Survived; Where Survival Becomes Strength

The background music is written, performed and produced exclusively by Char Good.
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Transcript

Let's begin today's episode. It's different when you put your voice behind your story. I chose to write about the dating abuse I endured versus sharing it on my podcast for many.

Writing about the experience, circumstances and healing is more accessible and comfortable than speaking about it. Healing is a personal journey, and I encourage you to follow the suitable path. My guest, Annemarie Conlan, understands this process. She recently published the book, A Grave for the Devil, a Warrior's Memoir, which can be found on Amazon Annemarie.

Never thought she would put her voice behind her story, choosing to publish a book instead. As an adult survivor of child abuse, trauma, and growing up in an orphanage, she desires to help others. Reading other survivor's books helped Anne-Marie journey From a frightened, feral child to a fully functioning adult, Anne-Marie represents the courage, strength, and perseverance survivor's need to open up.

Her passion and purpose have always been to help others. Anne Marie is a licensed psychotherapist, passionate about helping abuse children who lack advocacy. She has two master's degrees in psychology and was a certified behavioral analyst, clinical supervisor and registered art therapist. She has taught psychology college courses and LED seminars on child sexual abuse.

Today she is ready to put voice behind her story and let other survivors know they are not alone. Annemarie, welcome to the I Need Blue Podcast. 

Thank you for allowing me to share my story the first time. And I, you know, you're so active in the community and I just love. Seeing what you're doing, whether it's on Instagram or Facebook, and you are really out there and you're really doing things that's so exciting to watch that you, you've learned how to make it a message for others to receive and to grow from.

Absolutely. I, I love what I do. I was called to do it and I had to really challenge my comfort zones to do it because, um, standing up and speaking in front of people, even if it's for 30 seconds, terrified me. Like it does a lot of people. So I had to work through that and then it got to where I would speak in front of maybe a group of 10 people.

And then the groups would get a little bit larger. Really challenging that comfort zone of mine. But I think people have a level of empathy and compassion when they see someone come forward like that. Because I've gone through the things I've gone through, it makes it probably easier for me to relate to you and a little more comfortable for you to be able to relate to me.

This interview is the first time you have spoken to someone outside of a therapist or your husband. Thank you for 

trusting me. Well, thank you. That's very sweet. And you have demonstrated in every possible way that you are trustworthy. Um, otherwise absolutely. I would not be doing this right now. So, and yes, you're right, your story, certainly.

Makes me feel a little more comfortable. Um, there are things that not everyone experiences in life, but those who do are able to relate to one another on a level that most people can't. I wanna 

say one other thing too, because before I hit the recording button, I made a comment about a better hit recorder.

This will be a epic fail because I, I'm always so afraid I'm gonna go through an interview and forget to hit the button, but knock on wood, I haven't yet, but I want to address also. The sometimes that, that fear of failure that a survivor, um, can feel when they come forward and share their story. There's so much vulnerability because we don't know what people are gonna think of us afterwards.

How they're going to react. Is it gonna be like this uncomfortable silence, or is it gonna be this moment of em embracing like the human spirit in, in the healing that we really need? I'm gonna tell you, like I tell every guest on my podcast is I don't want you to feel any fear. We will work through that.

And this is all about you. 

Aw, you're gonna get me to cry before I even tell my story. Now stop that. I don't want you to cry. Well, thank you so much and you know, survivors of childhood trauma carry. So much shame inside, uh, profound and deeply rooted sense of responsibility and therefore shame for what happened to them.

You know, nobody told me, well, what's happening to you is not your fault. Bad people are doing bad things to you and we're gonna get you out of there. That wasn't my experience. My experience was. One in which I was, um, punished for what was being done to me and blamed and scorned and bullied. And so I didn't get the message until I started therapy well into my adult life that.

You are not responsible for the abuse that you suffered and the neglect and, and, and all of it. So it's hard to divorce ourselves from that. Uh, what has become innate shame about what happened to us because we're too young to realize that the grownups are ill. Or toxic. You know, we think grownups are always right.

Um, mom and dad are are always right. So if they tell me or convey to me through any means that I'm bad, well clearly I am bad. 

Right. And I mean, honestly for me, I grew up very Catholic home and one of the 10 Commandments is you honor thy father and mother. Hmm. So when you're taught that, you don't question.

That's right. Things because it's engraved in your head that if you do, you're, you're a bad person. 

That's a sin. Yeah. 

It's a sin, right? And so that's a different element. And not that I'm knocking anyone's religion because I think that we all need God in, in whatever form we are, are comfortable having that.

But for me, that is a reality living, growing up in that environment. And not that my parents were bad by any means, but when that's indoctrinated into your head, like you said, a child doesn't know enough to come forward, right? If, if they are experiencing something bad, 

Exactly, and I too was raised in the Catholic church.

Irish Catholic, huge families, all of it. I think there's a lot we just didn't understand in the late sixties and seventies. We didn't realize that the misbehaving child, the child who was acting out, might have been having problems at home. We have a better understanding of that now, but back then, the child was punished.

Nobody went to the parents and said, Now, what the heck are you guys doing? You know, why is this child behaving this way? And, uh, so yeah, I, I received some pretty scornful glances from the nuns that, uh, walked the halls. They just didn't understand, and they felt that their job was to judge me and shame me and.

Try to get me to, you know, repent, you know, for my naughtiness. 

Oh, yes, yes. Honestly, aria already where this conversation has started. You and I have a connection and, and kind of understand particular things too. So again, I am so thankful that you are 

here. Aw, thank you. Well, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

The fact that you grew up in an orphanage is something that a lot of us can't relate to. So even if you wanna start telling us a little bit about that experience, what you remember, what your ages were, I would love to learn that 

that is exactly where I was gonna start. 

Great. 

So I guess. What does make my story stand out is that I lived in an orphanage for a period of time during my childhood.

I was 10 years old, and after years of abuse and neglect and even a suicide attempt, I was carted off to an orphanage along with most of my brothers and sisters. I had two older brothers who didn't have to go, but the other seven. Children, um, including myself, were sent to the orphanage. Of course, it's really what led up to that point that the story is about.

I'll give you a little bit of background. My mom was diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. A few years before I was born, uh, she experienced visual, um, but primarily auditory hallucinations Throughout my childhood. When I was eight years old, she underwent electroconvulsive therapy or e c t. She was very tortured by the voices.

They sort of. Dominated our lives. As you can imagine, my mother who was raising nine children without much assistance from my dad, was incapacitated quite a bit, partly because of the voices, um, partly because of the medications, which were very different. Back in the sixties. They were much stronger. And because of the E C T, there wasn't a lot of energy left to manage the household, to feed us, to clothe us to to love us.

Strangely enough, we were living in an upper middle class suburb of Chicago. But we were very poor. My mom was not well most of the time, and my dad was, there's not necessarily a clinical term for him, but I think he could best be described as an emotional tyrant. Uh, he dealt with problems with the buckle end of a belt.

He once told me when I was a teenager, I didn't want all these kids. It was your mother's idea. He absolutely did not want those kids. He. Coped by yelling and cursing and threatening and hitting all day, and that's what he knew to deal with the problems. I was number five out of the nine kids. I had four older brothers and my second oldest brother, his name was Michael, he was more than six years older than me, a budding sociopath.

He was my primary perpetrator. He physically and sexually abused me and some of my siblings starting from a very early age. Um, my first memory is actually when I was six years old. By the time I was nine, he sexually abused me. He also forced me into crime by the time I was seven years old. I was forced to steal from stores, break and enter into homes and ransacked churches.

We vandalized and destroyed everything in our path and terrorized everyone along the way. I. I'm not going into a great deal of detail and I'm probably not quite ready for that. But I was thinking, um, to share an excerpt from my book. I would love that. Okay. It's a couple pages long, but it describes, uh, a breaking and entering event.

It gives a very clear picture of how I was used in his criminal activity. So the name of my book is A Grave for the Devil. In this case, I think I was between the age of eight and nine after supper. Michael gathered Phil, Luke, and me together in his bedroom. Phil and Luke are my other two older brothers.

He said, you guys are coming with me to do a special job. We never knew what the job would be until we got there. Would it be illegal or illegal? Would we help someone or hurt someone? Would there be a reward at the end or more empty promises outside? Michael led the way on our mission, throwing hateful glares at anyone who dared.

Look in our direction. We followed him to a two-story gray house a few blocks away with a for sale sign on the front lawn. When we passed the house, Michael said, this is the one. Don't look at the house. Don't look at the house. Just keep walking. We walked past the gray house and turned at the corner trying to shake off anyone who might be following us.

Once we were in the clear, we backtracked and jumped into the bushes on the side of the house. We huddled in the bushes and Michael briefed us. The owners already moved out and left a bunch of expensive stuff in there. We're going to break in and clean those guys out before they come back for the rest of it.

Turning to Luke and me, Michael said, you guys go try the front door. Act casual like you live here. Luke and I were always sent on the first leg of any mission because we were the youngest and appeared. Appeared the most innocent. I was nine and Luke was 11. No one would suspect us of any wrongdoing besides, you didn't say no to Michael.

My stomach tightened as Luke and I stroll nonchalantly at the walkway. Climb the cement steps and turn the knob at the red door. Locked. We hurdled back to the bushes. Michael, it's locked. Shh. Shut up. You guys are gonna get us caught. Michael pointed towards the backyard. Try the back door. We made sure the coast was clear before slithering outta the bushes and rushing to the back porch door.

I wanted to be the first one that tried the door handle, but lupus faster than I was and he pushed me outta the way locked. I tried the handle too. Yep. Locked. We hurried back. It's locked. We said in hush tones. Yeah, I can see that. Let's try this window crouching. We scuttled up to the basement window.

Michael pushed it locked. Michael unbuttoned his long sleeve tan paisley shirt and wrapped it around his fist until it looked like he was wearing a boxing glove. He turned to see if anyone was coming and then bashed the window. It shattered leaving a hole wide enough for his hand to fit through. Then Michael removed the large shards of glass before reaching through the spider wep hole to unlatch the window and get over here.

I sidled up next to him. You're the smallest. No one else can fit through this opening. I'm going to lower you down into the basement so you can run through the house and unlock the front door for us. You just need to let your body go limp. When I lift you up, don't fight it or kick your legs. Okay. I nodded my head up and down.

I needed to prove that I was brave and strong, but when I looked down into the blackened, cavernous basement, My insides seized up in the gloom, the nebulous objects hiding in the shadows looked ominous. My legs weakened and I started to shake. Something is going to get me down there once I drop you down.

Michael said, run up those steps and go unlock the front door for us. Be quick about it. The basement steps were lurking in. Deep shadows. Alarmed. I stepped back from the window. I don't wanna go down there. My brothers ambushed me. Come on, Anne. Don't be such a baby about it. You are the one who wanted to come.

Right When I want my bottle, just go home, then you baby. I thought you were a little bit more mature than that skewered by their remarks. I was determined to prove myself to them. I stepped up to the window and took a deep steadying breath in a soothing grownup voice. Michael said, nothing is going to hurt you down there.

A fleeting doubt gallop through my mind as I imagine the boys fleeing at the first sign of trouble sacrificing me to the monster. Living in the basement, I allowed Michael's reassuring words to chase away. Any doubt. Now, hurry up. We don't have all night. Feeling recharged with a sense of purpose. I ignored my rapid heartbeat and shallow breathing as Michael stood over me, pulling me up by my raised arms and lifting me a foot off the ground.

Slowly, he lowered me through the open window. My body swaying like a pendulum until I was three feet from the basement floor. Suddenly he let go. I heard the crunch of broken glass beneath my feet. When I landed, my knees almost bubbled and I nearly fell as I tried to stand. The basement was virtually pi pitched black.

I couldn't see anything but mysterious shadows. Michael peered down at me, a twisted smile of triumph carved into his face. Hurry, go up and unlock The door I realized was sinking whore that I couldn't go back the way I came. The only way out was up the long inky staircase. Terror bolted right through me.

Not long before when mom was unable to sleep because the voices wouldn't quit, she called me to her bedroom. Anne, can you come here? I poked my head through the door and she said, would you like to say the rosary with me tonight? Okay. I can't sleep. The voices won't let me. Her face was swollen from crying.

I fetched the rosary beads she gave me for my first holy communion. And laid down on the bed next to her. Try not to roll into the deep indentation. Her body made. We said 10 Hail Marys, and then ended with the Lord's Prayer to entre God's favor. Was that good mom? I said Desperate to go back to the room, but fearful of being gouged by guilt for abandoning her.

Yes, honey. Thank you. She gently sent into her mattress. Remember, if you ever feel afraid or if you ever feel like the devil is near you, she added. All you have to do is save Jesus, Marion Joseph, and the devil will flee because even the sound of Jesus' holy name will burn the devil's flesh. Okay, mom, I will.

She gave me a tired smile and rolled over. I'm going to try to get some sleep now. She said I have work tomorrow. Goodnight. Goodnight Mom. Um, Jesus, Marion Joseph, Jesus, Marion Joseph. My mom cried in the basement. When I reached the top step, I wiggled the handle with my trembling hand until it opened and barreled through the ill lit house through the kitchen, into the dining room, and passed the living room until I got my bearings.

When I found the front door rush of relief and exhilaration swept over me, I unlocked the door. My whole body quivering. My brother's bulldozed, passed me. Took you long enough? Yeah. What were you doing? Trying all the beds like Goldilocks, Luke added. All of you guys just need to shut up Michael Grip. Grab these bags and get busy.

There were half full packing boxes filled with objects carefully wrapped in newspapers and tucked neatly inside throughout the house. While Phil and loot placed China a salt and pepper shaker in a gravy boat into their bag, Michael hunted for the big ticket items of greatest value. He thrust a pair of candlesticks at me and told me to stuff them into one of the bags we brought for transporting the spoils of our burglary.

Michael headed upstairs to search for money, jewelry, watches, and other valuables in the bedroom. When we, when he came back down, he had a timon lamp in one hand and a bolting sack of stolen items slung over his shoulder, looking like the Grinch who just stole Christmas. Surreptitiously we exited through the back door under a full moon, making a run for it through the alleyways.

Flagging loudly, my heart racing faster than my legs could carry me until we got home. So that's just a little excerpt. It takes you through, you know, some of the crime that I was forced to commit under his. Tyranny. 

I felt like I was right there with you from the way you described his plaid shirt to all of the emotions that you were feeling inside and the fear and the not wanting to go down into the dark hole of the basement.

Amazingly written. I'm so glad that you shared that with us today, gives us a very descriptive glimpse of what you went through in your childhood prior to going into the orphanage. 

So I was nine when that happened. When I was 10. Michael was arrested because he put a gun to somebody's head to hold them up.

I knew he had weapons in his bedroom. He used to show them off. So I knew he had a gun, which was also very life changing. And so at 16 he was sent to juvenile detention and it was, it was at that time that we were. The rest of us were sent to the orphanage. My parents weren't in control. We were all living in utter chaos.

Even though being separated from everything I knew up until that point, my home, my parents, my family, my school, my neighborhood, the separation was painful, but. Looking back on it all these years later, I can honestly say it probably saved my life. And in fact, the reason I tried killing myself when I was 10 was my older sister and I, we just knew that we would never be safe in our home, and that the only way to ever be safe was to end it.

So when you're that age, you don't know. Nobody tells you.

Nobody says This is a bad thing and you should be saved from it, and we're gonna take you and we're gonna protect you and we're gonna make you better. You just endure not having any sense of how God awful it is. That you were trying to kill yourself at the age of 10. Yeah, you're 

right. It, it's not talked about.

And um, it's not okay. It's not your fault. And when it's intra familiar, when it happens with your family members, you know, your family members are supposed to love you and protect you, and at the end of the day, they're the ones who violated you. How do you. Process that. 

Right. There's no way to, because it's just life that's been normalized.

And it really wasn't until I was probably 16 that somebody said, well, you were abused. I'm like, what? Abused. I didn't know I was abused until I was about 16 years old. That was just life. 

And for you, you never forgot the abuse, cuz sometimes people forget and then they have flashbacks. But it sounds like you never forgot, like it just stayed present in your mind, 

right?

Yeah. I never had flashbacks. I always remembered what happened to me. I imagine there are things that I don't remember. Um, and that's okay with me at this point. It broke the cycle of abuse, crime, terror. Everything that we were living under all those years was finally broken. Um, Michael got out of juvenile detention.

I don't know exactly when. Again, because of my age, I wasn't aware of a lot of things. My parents got him out and then he laid low in Chicago thereafter. I don't think he ever went to prison after that, but because he, he was laying low. He would come visit us on occasion when we had home visits from the orphanage.

But other than that, The whole cycle was broken. You know, I didn't associate with him anymore. I didn't have to do anything with him anymore. That was a blessing in disguise. Absolutely. Before I wrote this book, I got the records from the orphanage, so I found out what my intake paperwork said and the psychosocial and things like that.

And you know, they described me as a very angry young lady. It's like, Yeah, I was angry. You know, I was devastated by what I had been through, and all the abuse and the terror, the orphanage at that time, it was 1970 when I went there. Treatment wasn't the focal point of your presence. People, you know, found on a boat.

From Cuba were sent to the orphanage. People who were suddenly orphaned because both parents died, could be sent to the orphanage. Um, it was built for physically and sexually abused and abandoned children, but anybody could end up there. But at that time, in 1970, there wasn't treatment. Nobody sat me down and did therapy.

We didn't have group therapy, we didn't have classes designed to improve our self-esteem or, you know, to begin to sort through our trauma. That wasn't what was happening at that time. Um, when we talked about treatment centers that came along much later and the institution was run by the Catholic Archdiocese, so.

Their focus was not intending to be harmful, but harmful in that they continue to use shame to try to change behavior. And by that time I had been shamed until I could take no more, um, shamed and treated like everything was my fault. Um, you know, a abused and, um, punished for everything. So shame was fairly ineffective and definitely antit treatment.

It was damaging on top of everything else that I had already been through. I don't. Believe that their intent was to be harmful. They didn't know any other way than the nuns who were overseeing the dormitories. They didn't have a degree in psychology. Nobody taught them how to treat abused children. All they were trying to do was manage 25 girls.

All from fairly horrific backgrounds and keep them under control and make sure they brush their teeth and ate enough food and got off to school on time and I couldn't have done their job. I can tell you that. So anyway, their intention was not to be harmful, but the lack of services, was it disservice to those children?

Right. 

They weren't taught the resources that were needed so that they could be a resource to you. 

That's right. Exactly. So I spent about two years in the orphanage and when I returned my, my younger sister and I were the first to return of all the siblings because we were girls and we were young girls and it was always assumed, you know, girls are probably.

Compliant and you know, they're not gonna cause trouble. So, uh, we were sent home first, uh, after about two years, and unfortunately my dad just got much worse and much more controlling. Uh, it was almost like he was taking notes all those years from his own sociopathic son. So like if I tried to leave the house, he would block me from leaving.

Uh, he would call me names that we don't need to mention here. Uh, and he started to strike me with his fists. So within a few years of returning home, I started drinking and using drugs, mostly my mother's Valium. Uh, I'm not talking about. Meth or, you know, things like that. But, um, at the age of 14, I overdosed on Valium because I was using it so much just to numb the pain.

And I was also, you know, running away when I could, you know, it's hard to find a somebody who wants to take in a teenage runaway. So when I was 15 years old, my older sister, uh, grace. She and her husband took me in, uh, and allowed me to live with them for a while. So I was a sophomore in high school. I dropped outta school and I left home for good.

I actually did talk to my mom first and tell her, you know, yeah, it, it's better if I just go better for everybody. And so I moved out of the house, and to be honest, I don't know how I would have survived those teenage years without my sister. I. Truly consider her a savior. And then about the same time I started hanging out at this Christian coffee house, it was called the bridge.

And it was, to be honest, the like the first time I ever felt accepted and loved unconditionally. I had just never felt anything like that. And as people continue to accept me and embrace me, Started to sort of redefine myself from this hideous, awful, bad person to someone who had some worth. Honestly, the bridge played a critical role in my evolution from a very deeply wounded and withdrawn teenager to a young adult gearing up to take on the world.

And, I don't know, discover life. Um, there was one particular woman there, uh, her name was Kate, still is, for whatever reason, Kate kind of took me on as her pet project. She got an apartment and I moved in to the apartment with her contingent on my returning to high school. She said, you can live with me, but you have to go back to high school and graduate.

And I did. She loved me. She, she was a, a beautiful, beautiful human being. You know, in my book I say sometimes we don't realize. How we impact the lives of other people. Yes, 

that's very true. I also think that people are brought into our lives for a reason, and we don't necessarily know what that initial reason is, but then as time goes on, their purpose is revealed in our life.

I agree and thank you to your sister. As well. I, I, if she listens to this, I'm saying thank you as well. 

She will listen to it cuz I won't make her listen to it. Um, and so Will Kate actually Yeah, Kate will hear it too. So I spent another minute. Yeah, take 

your time. That was, uh, amazing. You're doing amazing.

I just, I wanna tell you, you're. An amazing woman. 

Thank you. I appreciate that. 

You're so welcome. I'm sure you look back at the whole thing and you're like, wow, I, I really went through that and I, I am where I am today. You know, 

I'll tell you what, nothing makes you appreciate yourself more than writing your memoirs because you look at them and you're like, wow.

I survived that. That's pretty good. Yeah, I'm badass. Yeah.

So, yes ma'am, you are. One other thing I wanted to add was as I got to the other side of what I had been through, I decided probably when I was about 16 years old, that. What I wanted to do was I wanted to help other people. I wanted to save my mom. But, uh, you know, to date, they don't have any absolute answer for why people develop paranoid schizophrenia.

Um, but they, they do have much better treatment. But I knew by the time I was 16 that I was going to become a therapist, which is what I did. I graduated from high school. A few years later I went to college and I studied art and psychology. Right after that, I went and got my first Master's degree in art therapy because art therapy was a modality that could be used with young children who either didn't have the words to articulate what happened to them or were too frightened.

To say what happened to them. I know when I was a child, if someone ever said, you know, tell me what happened. It would never have occurred to me in a lifetime to tell them about the sexual abuse. It just didn't. It was just life. It was just the way things were. Nobody said it was bad. Nobody treated. Me like I had been harmed or abused, but when you talk about it, you sound like you're reading from a dictionary.

There's no feeling behind it. And that's how I survived, is I suppressed the emotions so that I didn't have to feel that pain. That was my survival strategy. 

Earlier in this uh, episode, you read an excerpt from your book, so technically yes. You were reading from a book. But what I wanna say too, that I noticed is you read with emotion, complete emotion.

Vulnerable emotion. I could feel your pain, your apprehension, and so for you, I can hear in your voice the transition that you made from being that person that would just read and monotone to now being able to put that emotion behind it. That had to be, uh, an amazing journey for you to go through. 

Yeah.

Thank you. I appreciate that. And it, and you're right, it took me a long, long, long time, uh, to allow myself to express feelings in the presence of other people. To be honest, it's probably been only within the last. 15 years. I would say 20 years ago, if you and I were having this interview and I started to get choked up, I would literally have clicked end session and walked away.

That would, I would never have been able to. Allow myself to express my feelings in anyone's presence, uh, not even my husband's. So, um, yeah, I've come a long way and so I got those degrees and I worked in psychiatric hospitals. I worked in residential treatment centers, and I worked on an outpatient basis.

Uh, specifically with children who had been abused and I used whatever modality worked. Sometimes art therapy, sometimes you know, talking, sometimes dancing, whatever it took, you know, to open those channels of communication and enable them to feel safe, to know that I could contain what they had to say. I didn't tell them about my past.

I. Instilled in them a sense that it was going to be okay. Whatever they shared with me, they would be safe with me and I would keep their memories safe until they were able to talk about it more. For me, the greatest challenge over the years and, and my book talks a little bit about this, is combating P T S D, anybody who has been through a severe trauma, whether as a child, Or as an adult, you will suffer from ptsd.

T s D. You know, for me, uh, I suffered a lot from anxiety and at one point I had, uh, even developed a agoraphobia where I couldn't leave the house that only lasted a few months, but then, of course, depression and nightmares and obsessive catastrophic thoughts. And a fear of intimacy, especially with men. So I began my own therapy when I was about 16 and off and on.

Throughout my entire life to cope with those things and to learn to be able to live in the moment, uh, without fear to learn to, uh, not always be vigilant, to be able to walk in a room and not have to look around and identify all the exits, and identify all the people whose energy is negative and potentially threatening.

To be able to relax and stay in the moment, and to live and to love. My book is not just about what happened to me as a child, but it's the journey that brought me to who I am now, uh, to, you know, a wife, to a mother, to a a, a therapist. You said 

you are a mother? 

Yeah, so my daughter's name is Anya and my son's name is Dakota.

Uh, they're both musicians. Anya wrote a song called Stars. She wrote it literally weeks after our home burned down. And this song repeats the words. I'll keep going until I see stars. And we realize that that was really. A mantra for triumph over tragedy, and I'm incredibly and proud. Of both her and, and my son, who also, uh, writes original music with, uh, his band.

Uh, his band probably will not be featured on my web, uh, website because it is death metal and I have learned to appreciate that genre and not something that I ever thought I would learn to appreciate, but I do, but I'm not sure it's a good fit for the website. 

No worries. Speaking of website, what is the website 

address?

It's just one word. A gray for the devil you know, no spaces in between. Dot com. Um, and again, the book is called A Gray for the Devil, A Warrior's Memoir. 

Okay, Annemarie, let's, uh, play stars right now so we can all hear the beautiful music. And then we're gonna come back and we're gonna finish up the interview with just some words of wisdom, strength for other survivors who may be listening.

Annemarie, that was a beautiful song, and if you want to hear it again, please go to Annemarie's website, a grave for the devil.com. Okay, Annemarie, as I said before the music started, we were gonna end with you sharing some words of comfort, support, encouragement that you have for someone who may be listening to this story.

Okay. Well, thank you for that opportunity. For those of you who are experiencing your own struggles, I want to assure you that you will get to the other side and it will be a journey live in the moment. Through that journey, if you are able to seek out people who. Are good, who listen, who love, and allow yourself to be vulnerable with safe people and take care of yourself.

Think about what you enjoy. For me, at the end of the book, I wrote things like, I love to ride my bike. I love to sit down and read a book with fuzzy socks on and a little blanket and a cat on my lap, and. Think about the simplest things that bring you comfort, that make you feel good about yourself, and allow time for those things because they're important.

Take care of yourself and allow yourself to be taken care of by those people you trust and love so that you can begin the process of healing. I can say at my age, I still suffer. In some small ways from P T S D, I can't sleep without a light on, but that's okay. I still can live a fulfilled life, um, a happy life, a happy marriage, even though there are still things that will always be with me because of what I went through.

You'll never be someone who didn't go through what you went through. But you can live a satisfying and rewarding life. And that's ma, that is what makes life worth living. So thank you for allowing me to share my story the first time, and thank you to those of you who have listened and, um, you now share my journey too in your heart, and I appreciate it so much that you have allowed me to come into your heart.

And if you choose to read my book, hopefully it will be the gift to you that the books written by other survivors was once for me. Thank you. 

Thank you Anne Marie, and thank you for being my guest on the I Need Blue podcast. 

My pleasure. 

This is Jen Lee with the I Need Blue Podcast. As always, thank you for listening.

All of my episodes can be found on Apple Podcast, Spotify, and my website www.ineedblue.net. And as I always say, remember you are stronger than you think. Thank you for listening.