I Need Blue

A 9/11 Survivor's Journey: Uncovering the Profound Impact of Small Decisions with Charlie

• Jennifer Lee/Charlie • Season 3 • Episode 21

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What if a seemingly small decision could change your life forever? In this gripping podcast, Charlie shares his journey from a successful Wall Street professional to a filmmaker, exploring the profound impact of his choices along the way. 

 September 11th, 2001, and the attacks on the World Trade Center is a day Charlie will never forget. He shares the "survivor guilt" many felt and continue to feel today.  He is raw and honest in his account of what happened and how it impacted his decisions moving forward.  

Information about Charlie:

https://www.jgalt.io/ccomparetto/

https://www.cellardoorfilms.net

Ghost in The Graveyard and other short stories:
https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Graveyard-other-short-stories-ebook/dp/B0C9YH4B14/ref=sr_1_1?crid=XDFF6I9HZT6T&keywords=ghost+in+the+graveyard+and+other+short+stories&qid=1691423955&s=books&sprefix=ghost+in+the+graveyard+and+other+short+stories%2Cstripbooks%2C101&sr=1-1

Ghost in the Graveyard movie:
https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Graveyard-Major-Motion-Picture/dp/1700745883/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2JQRLGMQP7PHG&keywords=ghost+in+the+graveyard&qid=1691424015&s=books&sprefix=ghost+in+the+graveyard+%2Cstripbooks%2C115&sr=1-3

Rub movie:
https://www.amazon.com/RUB-Micah-Spayer/dp/B0C9WBSZ9S/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=rub+movie&qid=1691423660&sr=8-1

Connect with Jen:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ineedbluepodcast/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/needbluepodcast
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp1q8SfA_hEXRJ4EaizlW8Q
Website: https://ineedblue.net/

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Speaker 1:

Everyone has a story. They just don't always have a place to share it. Welcome back. This is Jen Lee, creator and host of High Need Blue podcast. True Crime to True Life.

Speaker 1:

As a survivor of arm dropery and abduction, I understand the trauma and triggers survivors experience Knowing this and through my powerful podcast, I offer survivors a safe place to share their lived experiences. Survivors need blue to feel they belong, they are loved, understood and my favorite empowered. Please note I Need Blue does contain sensitive topics which could be triggering. Please seek help if needed and remember you always come first. I Need Blue episodes can be found on Apple Podcast, spotify and many listening platforms, including my website, wwwineedbluenet. There you will find valuable resources, safety tips, my newly released book and e-book why I Survived by Jennifer Lee. I would like to thank Shar Good, the talented violinist who composed and performed this opening music. You can find information about Shar Good on my website. As always, thank you for listening.

Speaker 1:

Let's begin today's episode. Meet Charlie. He specializes in business consulting and development, especially for entrepreneurs and small businesses. He is a story author and co-founder director of the Dreams Come True Charitable Foundation. In his spare time he is a filmmaker and producer. I will include links in the show notes to learn more about Charlie's successful endeavors. However, what we are talking about today is what you will not find on Charlie's resume. It is an experience he will never forget and rarely talks about, but he is here today to share his recollection of surviving 9-11. With over 25 years of experience on Wall Street, he made many business and personal connections. Today, we will remember those he lost. By sharing we keep the memories of those who perished in such a tragic event. May we remember all those, including the first responders, who carry the memories and emotional scars still to this day. Charlie, I appreciate your courage to be my guest today. Your story is going to impact so many other survivors of this horrific, tragic day. Thank you for being my special guest on the I Need Blue podcast.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for having me here.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. I wanted to start this interview asking you growing up and you were a child what did you want to do?

Speaker 2:

What did I want to do? It probably changed, you know, every year. But I was recounting the story recently where a lot of times when I was playing games with my friends, and particularly with my cousins, we would play war games or whatever, and I was kind of already directing and writing, rewriting, and there had to be an arc. We have to lose this battle, but then we win the final battle. And I didn't realize it, but I think doing the film thing was probably from an early age, something that was in the back of my mind.

Speaker 1:

You had that creative way of pulling, you know, your thoughts and your vision together and creating a scene.

Speaker 2:

There had to be scenes, there had to be victories and losses and basically I was modeling our games on what I was seeing on TV and movies. It was probably annoying to play with me because I had to wait cut. You know, I wasn't saying cut, but I basically was doing that.

Speaker 1:

Now you had made a comment about things that influenced you in regards to what you saw on TV and things like that. How did you go from filmmaking with your friends to financial on Wall Street?

Speaker 2:

You know, like a lot of people, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do and there was always that struggle in the back of my mind of wanting to make money too and things like that Make sure you're secure. I was trying to go to film school out in California and my mother was a nurse, raising three children by ourselves. There was a cost concern about me going to an LA film school. I did apply to NYU, which was closer, but I mean, this is kind of how silly little things in life can change everything to you.

Speaker 2:

I was accepted to NYU but they wouldn't give me a dorm because I lived in Queens. So technically I could commute, but a commute would have looked like me taking a bus to a train, to another train and then doing the same thing every night, which really would take hours. You know the school was encouraging me to get a dorm on my own, get an apartment with some other people that were in the same situation, but there was no way in the conversation I had with my mom that we could afford anything like that. So I didn't go to Hofstra University in Long Island. They didn't really have a true film department. I ended up being like, okay, I'm going to, I guess, business is like a I mean, if I learn business, I guess that could be applicable.

Speaker 2:

I ended up meeting my wife in school and have five daughters from that. So if I go to NYU film school or I go to UCLA or something, I'm not sitting here, probably talking to you right now. Like every little decision, it's amazing how it can affect so many different things.

Speaker 1:

But you are so right about that. I have to tell you I've been to New York a couple of times, and fortunately with people who knew their way around. Because I'm going to tell you, just looking at the train, all of the lines of this is the A1, the B1, the C1, wherever you want to go. Oh my gosh, I would have been so confused, but I imagine you figure it out. When's the last time you've been to New York?

Speaker 2:

My mom actually passed away this year, so we were there for that. That's the last time we were there and we were there for a funeral and kind of taking care of her selling up her estate and all that stuff, and so that's the last time I've been there.

Speaker 1:

So I'm sorry for your loss and, again, that's another one of those things that causes life changes, right?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, she was the backbone of the family and she was a wonderful person. Really, it's really the best person I've ever met. You know, it's a huge loss. It's weird, though. I don't know, Maybe I just bury things I think I tend to but to me she's not even really gone. Like I think to myself almost every day oh, I can't wait to tell my mom this. Whether it's good or bad, it's one of the best things that happened to me and the worst things that happened. I'm like, oh, my mom's going to appreciate this one. And then I'm like, oh, wait a minute, I can't talk to her anymore. It's weird.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's like not that we take time for granted, but we don't want to really think about when that time will end.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, you never know.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, for sure. You know I love that. Several times now we've talked about how life changes because your path has changed and there was an event you surviving 9-11, which really changed your life. We talked a little bit about what it's like to commute in New York. Can you share with me your daily routine when you would go to work?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So I was in the bond market, which opens up a couple hours before the stock market. You know, when I first started on Wall Street, we opened the market at 8. Then it moved to like 7.30. Then it moved to 7. I actually left Wall Street about a year ago, but when I left, you know, 6.30 in the morning, you were basically taking orders for the opening and then we turned the screens on at 7.

Speaker 2:

So for me, I lived about 45 minutes north of the city, I mean, it was probably 28 miles to the city and then, you know, coming in the morning, it took me typically about an hour. I would drive for most of the 25 years that I was doing that commute. Every now and then I would take the train, but the drive was basically, you know, an hour 15 minute drive just because it was so early, you know, leaving my house at 445 in the morning. I loved Wall Street, I love the friends and connections I made, but that commute was killing me. Driving is actually enjoyable to me when I'm moving. When I'm not moving, it's soul-sucking.

Speaker 1:

I Understand.

Speaker 2:

I used to say that to my wife was like, yeah, she's, that was the commute. It was soul-sucking, soul-sucking commute. I Understand.

Speaker 1:

I had a job for probably a year and a half where my commute one way was two hours, and you're right, it does affect the quality of your life, for sure, but it sounds like. All of that aside, you had a routine down, but there was one day where that routine was interrupted by something that you and I would never have imagined, and that was September 11th. Was there anything different that occurred that morning out of your regular routine?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and that's honestly it's. It's. I don't really like talking about it that much just because one it's Obviously a really difficult day where for many people and I lost many, many friends that day, and business associates and close friends, some of my best friends, but on top of that I did have these kind of series of Occurrences that people say to me oh, that was your angels in a fearing or they were trying to stop you from going in. And it's hard to accept that a little bit because I Think about my friends that died and like how come they're, you know? So I don't really like to talk about it like part of it I wouldn't. I didn't want to talk about it many times because I thought their loved ones, you know, their wives would be like what is he's? You know it's almost like, but maybe I was just in tune to it or maybe I was just lucky, you know, maybe it was just some luck, but I couldn't find my wallet.

Speaker 2:

I Basically going into the city without my wallet, like just getting into the World Trade Center, was Tough and it was very important to when those screens open. We would make 90% of our day in the first Half hour or hour because you'd have all these all night trades and stuff. So being late is useless. You can miss a day, that's fine, but to be late just makes no sense. But I couldn't find my wallet. I was looking everywhere for it, somehow like I couldn't find my lot. I couldn't find my ID. I couldn't you need a guest for the car. I don't need guests for the car, things like that. I was tearing the house apart. I think my wife was kind of heard me. I was still thinking I was gonna go in. Because I went in so early, I still thought I could make it. I actually laid back down in bed at one point to get a breather. Then I found my wallet in my bed. So I was like, okay, I got it, I'm going. So I left.

Speaker 2:

Then the warning light on my car came on. I had low air pressure and one of my tires got to go to the gas station. Calculating in my head, I think I might be late. So I ended up bumping this woman that stopped in front of me, blaming the air pressure. It is my driving. It was literally a tiny tap, but as we got out we checked it and I pull in, I get the air and then by this point I had just kind of made up my mind like, okay, I'm not going in, it's too late. We had gotten this big tent that had to be returned to a realtor. So there was pay phones at this time at the gas station. So I called my wife from the paper on which I've never done one time ever in my life and I just said, hey, just, you know I'm not going to work, but I'm not gonna be home when you get up, I'm going to Connecticut to return this tent. So she said, okay.

Speaker 2:

So then I was just driving to Connecticut country roads, it's beautiful up there and I heard I don't remember when I first heard about the plane, but I heard it on one of the radio stations. I think I was in a WNEW and he mentioned it. I was like, oh, a small plane hit. I was like, oh, I work in that building. That's crazy. One World Trade. They were saying the first tower, which is the tower I was at, one World Trade. And then by the time I got to the realtor and Went in, they were it was being reported that it was, you know, a bigger than that. After that I was still in the car.

Speaker 2:

I was coming home at that time when the second plane hit and then I remember thinking, yeah, this is, this is something else. This is not an accident, you know, but people were calling my house like crazy and the good thing was that my wife knew that I was okay, so she was able to assure people which, for my friends, you know that were because of cell phone issues and stuff like that, everything that happened. Their wives were calling me all day, you know, and people were calling and no one could get through to most of them for hours because there was no service and phones weren't as efficient as they are now, but also, I guess, because of what was going on. It was a horrible day, you know I was, so I wasn't there. I mean the people, even everyone from my company I was at a company called my cap at the time Everyone got out except for one girl.

Speaker 2:

We were on the 26th floor, I think the in the tower. That was the first tower hit. So they all were able to get out, but even for them, they were Traumatized by what they saw and just the act of leaving the building. Many people never went back, even though they survived. It's hard to be thankful when so people died and you lost so many friends and there's a little bit of guilt about it too, like, oh man, I wasn't there. I felt like I should have been there and that, you know, feel a little bit of guilt over, you know, not being there, and it's a weird emotion to deal with that think about.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, survivors, guilt is. I Believe what you're describing and everything that you're feeling needs to be validated. I have to imagine when you were getting the phone calls from the spouses. Every time that dire feeling inside that pit in your stomach Just kind of grew more and more as you were not able to give them the answer that they were looking for, that you were looking for I.

Speaker 2:

Was trying to be optimistic before everybody at iCAP Because of the location. I knew that the plane was above it and it took quite a while for the tower to come down. But Part of the I don't know what the word is, but part of the difficulty of it is the company that I worked for a year earlier, the crew that I worked with. They were hit directly by the second plane and so half of them left when the first plane hit but half of them stayed to man the phones and it's basically the Treasury market. You know, we kind of needed it to be open. They talk about personnel. That's key, important personnel.

Speaker 2:

The Treasury market needed to stay open. It didn't need to stay open because it actually closed for days, but we felt the need to keep it open. So I'm sure there was a conversation there where you know you get it, should we? Who's gonna stay, who's gonna go For one? I was working with those guys. So it's horrifying to think about those people that I was working with. The second plane hit them directly but my gut instinct is that I would have stayed and I covered some really important counts. I feel like if I had been with them still and had been in that day, I don't think I would have left. You never know, though, in that moment especially, I don't know what they were seeing Outside their windows and stuff like that. But the people that stayed, you know they stayed because they cared about what they were doing, and you know every 9-11, you know it's difficult.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, what when that day comes around? Do you have a routine?

Speaker 2:

Not, not really, you know, for a long time after I would raise a drink at the end of the night to some of my Closest buddies and think about them, but that stopped a while ago. And then we had our charity day on 9-11. The 10 11 years I was at BGC, we did it on 9-11. Bgc has the largest charity day for September 11 employees and now they get to so many other causes too, because they very so much money. So that kind of was a nice distraction.

Speaker 2:

Every 9-11 You'd have all these celebrities at your work and we've had presidents come in, we had Trump there and Bush and Clinton All kept visited our office and you got to meet them. And then you know Yankees and Rangers and all that. So it was a nice distraction. But then we would always have those moments of silence at the times of each plane hitting and when they came down, and then there would be a pastor that would come and Hold a prayer and I would try to go to that when I could, if I could pull myself off my desk. So that was really probably was therapeutic for me for many years.

Speaker 1:

You mentioned the word therapeutic. Those are any thing that you did. You sought out therapy To kind of help you deal with what you saw that day on TV the survivors guilt, anything like that.

Speaker 2:

No, I mean I Probably should have, I mean I would, I would go down there, you know, and go down and visit a bunch afterwards and then we didn't work too far from there. I actually got pneumonia, probably from the dust, and a bunch of people at my company Got pneumonia in the months after it. That was therapy for me to go down and look at Kind of the destruction from a distance. You could only get so close and you know. But other than that, no, my therapy was probably, probably wasn't good therapy was probably, you know, talking about those people over drinks, you know, drinking, drinking is probably my therapy For many years, you know, dealing with it, I would think, which is probably not good therapy, but it was, it worked and so it's a some extent I think.

Speaker 1:

I'm gonna use a word that you used earlier when you were talking about your mom, which is bury things, right? Sometimes it's easier to bury them and think that they didn't exist, or I didn't feel that, or I don't want to feel that anymore, and then we make the choices that we want, how we want to deal with that. You know, what I visualize right now is is you and I both watching this on On TV, right? Different locations? Obviously I'm horrified, like just in disbelief, but not personally connected, right, so you know, most separated as to like, oh, this is like a movie, like you know, crazy For you Standing also at a TV watching this. It was a very personal experience that I could never understand. That being said, to someone like me who witnessed it that day without that personal connection, what is something that you would like to share with me that maybe I didn't realize?

Speaker 2:

I don't know if it's something you didn't realize, but maybe I can give you some insight going into what it was like in the aftermath. Obviously, we were like everybody, we were glued to our TV, but it was really like a waiting game, all day and night waiting to hear from everybody and then getting reports of who was okay and then starting to realize who wasn't going to be okay. Really, one of my mentors, two of my mentors and two of my best friends didn't make it out and that was devastating to me personally, probably close myself off for many years from making any new friends. I think I still do that a little bit to some extent, because when you lose somebody that are close to you, it's like, well, I don't want to experience that again when you open yourself up to people in a loving, caring friendship and even as just your friends. But there was more to that sharing each other's lives and children's lives, and triumphs and tragedies, and then to just have it ripped out, and many at once. We didn't know how many people died. The number was actually much smaller than I thought it was going to be, but it's amazing how many people they got out and the firefighters that did an amazing job and then many of them rushed in there. That's unfair. That blows me away. These people that ran into that building knowing they probably knew too that we probably not coming out of here, but we're going to get as many people as we can.

Speaker 2:

I remember laying in bed that night one day I was thinking we were at war. There was that thought like okay, what's really going on? The skies were closed down to planes and things like that. But I remember hearing jets screaming up and down the Hudson River all night long, military jets which you never hear in New York. This was horrible because it was like why are there jets flying up and down the Hudson? We never hear it for one. Why are they there? What's going on? Is there a war going to happen here? So you're thinking about all that stuff and then the next day just realizing who we hadn't heard from I could have probably went to I don't even know the number, but 100 year olds I could have attended.

Speaker 2:

I was going to two or three a day at one point and then I even stopped going to some that I really should. I even regret, oh man, I didn't go to that funeral. I didn't go to that funeral. But I was getting numb, I couldn't handle it anymore and I was like I can't do this. I have some guilt over that. Like not man, I can't believe I didn't go to that guy's funeral, like I should have went and told his wife I'm sorry.

Speaker 2:

It was difficult, I think also because I was dealing with that guilt of like, okay, I'm okay. And then people kept saying, oh, tell your story. What, how you didn't make it in that day. And I'm like, no, I'm not telling, because to me it was. The wife would say, well, why didn't that happen to me? Why did that happen to my husband? So I really kind of like this. I kind of suppressed the story for a long time, but I'm thankful it happened. Whether it was, you know, angels are just dumb luck, you know, not taking good care of my car. If I took better care of my car, you know, I might not be here right now, yeah, but yeah, I think it's very normal to look back and play the what if game.

Speaker 1:

You know it's part of the survivor's guilt, but also you carried a lot of grief and I haven't studied enough on grief to fully understand it. But I know that that is a tough emotion to deal with in a tough emotion to process and work through. It is possible, but it's tough. Do you still grieve?

Speaker 2:

I mean, I just, you know, I started feeling a lot of pain when we were just discussing, you know, the funerals so I guess. So you know when I think about it. But I do because I feel like, and I can only imagine what their families feel like. But I feel like, you know, I lost some really special friendships. That were people that that you kind of started with on Wall Street and went through a lot together and there were so many good memories in such a short time with them. It's like what could have been. So I think I do grieve at times, but mostly what I think of those people. I'm laughing and thinking of fond memories, honestly, like we talk about. Oh, you know, remember when he did this or remember when he did that. A couple of them were real characters, real like legendary people that I looked up to and other people looked up to and they were just, you know, one of a kind people.

Speaker 1:

I have to imagine somewhere in there you look back and you say that you were blessed to have have them in your life, even if it wasn't as long as you wanted them to be there.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, this stuff happens to people all the time. It's just that this was a massive event. It's so senseless. It's just like what kind of evil people like do this stuff? It's really hard to fan them sometimes, you know, but this has been going on to all of history. Man can be pretty bad.

Speaker 2:

Man can be pretty bad sometimes you know it's easy for us to condemn ourselves for things we've done wrong in life and nobody's perfect and you make a lot of mistakes but you know, you think about this kind of stuff. You know people that do things like this and kill for no reason, and you know different events in history. It makes it easier to forgive yourself for your shortcomings. When you think about these people and how they get so confused. I think that they're doing right too. That's the thing too. It's understandable.

Speaker 1:

Right, I want to slowly transition out of this and you're doing great, I have to tell you. I just want to reaffirm that and I can hear like the grief and the pain in your voice, so I wanted to share that. But I guess my last question in regards to the event, and it's more so about today Do you have triggers?

Speaker 2:

I don't think so. Don't think I do. I'm trying to think. I mean, I'm just trying to analyze myself and see if I do. I really don't think I do. My answer yeah, I'm going to say no, you know.

Speaker 2:

But I'll say this I haven't watched any of the you know, like the Tom Hanks movie and stuff like that, I obsessed on it for two weeks after September 11, where I watched everything and Then I wouldn't watch anything about it for probably at least a decade. I wrote a film and then I wrote a short story that is in a book. It's a book of short stories that I recently Just released in ebook form, but I'm gonna be releasing as a book eventually and those were therapeutic for me and I think after I wrote the film, I Was able to start watching some things about it again and stuff. But to answer the question, yeah, I think I was triggered by anything that came on and, of course and I can't blame them but my wife and, you know, my children and they all wanted to watch everything about it.

Speaker 2:

It was an important bet for them. They were able to process it better. I couldn't process it. I didn't want to. You know, see it, I avoided, like looking at the hard facts of the tragedy and the terror that those people experienced, because you know it was really Terrible for many of them. People, the people that you know we're jumping out of the building and things like that right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, there are scenes you'll you'll never forget. I want to transition out of this because I can feel your emotions, but I want to make sure there is not anything that you wanted to mention about that day that I missed.

Speaker 2:

No, I think you did a good job, cory, thank you, thank you. This is like probably a therapy session for me. Therapy session number one. I.

Speaker 1:

Want to share something with you before we get into your filmmaking and things like that and I stare at this every day. I'm gonna read it to you as I put it right here in front of me, because I really felt that it would bring you some comfort. I had a friend, a guest of mine, who put this on Instagram and I immediately printed it off and framed it and I look at it every day and it says when you stand and share your story in an empowering way, your story will heal you and your story will heal somebody else, and I want you to know that I find a lot of comfort in that, so I brought it in here with me today.

Speaker 2:

Well, thank you, that's. That does make you feel you know, meeting you and then this guy deciding to you know talk about it in a public forum. You know, I do think it was time and you have a very gentle quiet nature about you and it seemed like it made sense to me and I Don't think I'll probably ever talk about it again in public, but I do hope at some point that I can maybe tell my, tell a little bit of my story, you know, in some other way and doing like I said, doing the things that I'm doing, I think or have been therapeutic in some way.

Speaker 1:

Yes, well, and down the road. If there's anything I can do to help you, by all means reach out, even if it's just that you need a sounding board or whatever that may be. I think I've been gifted this ability to bring about a calming nature Within people and I'm thankful for that, but also, as somebody who's been through their own stuff, I Kind of understand that feeling inside of the. Your stomach hurts. You feel like you can't breathe, like all of those things that you go through when you Want to share your story and I describe it as I'm definitely challenging my comfort zone, because it's hard for me to get up and talk, but when I do, it might be that day it might be months later Somebody will reach out to me and be like I saw you share your story and I'm ready to share mine.

Speaker 1:

So even if you never hear from anybody because most of the time I don't what I just read to you is true, is Absolutely true. So thank you, thank you. So let's move on then to where you are today and how you took that youthful experience and dream that you had. You are a filmmaker and a Producer, and that fascinates me. I have a podcast to share messages and stories and you use your talent to create film. Tell me about that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, like I said, I always kind of wanted to get into film. It was, and I love film. Most of my training, a full training, is just watching films, watching films over and over and Watching all the greats and watching, you know, foreign films and different things that maybe are different than other people, and that was my true training. I mean, I've done different programs, film programs and stuff to learn some of the technical things I needed. But I feel like the great filmmakers guys like Scorsese and Tarantino and stuff and not to compare myself to that at all Because I'm not in their league and I kind of worship the ground they welcome but they're great filmmakers because they watched Every film and not only that. You talk to them and they can tell you about shots in the film and different things, like some obscure film you never heard of. It's pretty amazing. So I just love films. It was just something I always wanted to do but, like anything, you get caught up with life and you're. You know I'm having success on Wall Street. I'm giving my children a nice upbringing and a nice home and able to do things for them that I wasn't able to do, maybe for myself, even as when I was growing up at some point, though I just was like thinking about it. It was in the back of my mind always but probably was never gonna happen. Then, actually, the first thing that like kind of catalyzed, my kids were playing a game of Ghost in the Graveyard, which is this kids game and I don't know if you've ever heard of it, but it's kind of like reverse tag where the person is, it is the ghost and they kid that people hide. The ghost comes and sings this creepy song and I had never played it. Growing up in the city wasn't a city game, I think it was more of a country Woods game and my kids were playing in the backyard. My wife had taught them and it was creepy Like it was scary, like the kids were doing this chant in the woods and it was getting dark and you couldn't really see. Kids were running around screaming and I said to my wife with class in hand hey, so much should make a movie about this. And literally the next day I wrote, I took out a book and I wrote Ghost in the Graveyard 1, 2, 3 Echoes through the woods, and then that was the start of a journey that took me 10 years From that first moment where I put down that word to get the film made, a lot of people helped and along the way and I took off my shoes and I was like I helped and along the way and I took classes and NYU, I backed NYU at night and then I went to dub Simmons Film School All the stuff to learn what it takes to make a movie, and we shot a teaser in my backyard at my house.

Speaker 2:

We showed that to investors, we raised the money and then we shot the movie and I actually left Wall Street for six months to shoot the movie. It was the hardest six months of my life. It was really very difficult process, emotionally, artistically. Terri Lee I was in way over my head on everything Made many mistakes in the film. I have so many regrets. I would love to shoot it again. Like I'm proud of what we made to an extent, but there was like holes in the story and stuff like that.

Speaker 2:

When you shoot a low budget film and also you'd have it planned Things out maybe if I had more experience you have a location and you shoot everything that you run out of time at that location To go back to location to get what you need. There's a huge cost involved, like here's actually a good example we we had them having like Jake B C in the movie and you know who was a semi-famous, but Gary B C's father and he's an autotov. He was in Stranger Things most recently and he's in the Predator and he was in. You know, I mean, he's pretty well known. He played the father in the film. You know he was getting paid. So we had him for like four days, like, and we had to shoot every scene with him in four days and I've heard them doing this with actors doing it one day. But we got four, which was a luxury, you know. We flew him in from LA and everything and shot his stuff.

Speaker 2:

But the last day of filming and we're filming in a graveyard at night from like eight o'clock at night To six in the morning and we're setting up at five o'clock or four o'clock to start at eight o'clock and it was miserable. It was the coldest winter ever in New York. Yeah, we're low budget. He's not used to the conditions. He used to having a nice trailer and all that stuff and we had like some bands of something to get into, but it wasn't what he was used to it snowed. So we were shooting all this stuff. So it looks amazing on film.

Speaker 2:

But what people don't realize is when you do that I've got 20 other scenes that are coming after that in the movie and there's gotta be snow in those scenes, and so of course that snow it melted in the morning again epic footage and then it went from being the coldest winter ever to the warmest winter ever. We never got a sniff of snow again and we've got all these scenes we have to shoot with no snow. That doesn't make sense. So we had to shoot the rest of the film that was hadn't been shot yet. We bought basically every bag of salt within a 20 mile radius to place on the set, like we had a giant truck of salt and even when you spread it out and took hours to do, it barely looked like there was any kind of snow. It's like there was a spattering.

Speaker 2:

So we had to shoot everything with the camera basing on the ground, looking up at the actors after that so that you couldn't see any landscape, which is not ideal. So these are the kind of things that you're dealing with. It was a massive challenge, but we did it. And then I got to do a bunch of other stuff because of that and made some connections and was able to produce some other films, and Rob just came out a week ago and is getting amazing reviews.

Speaker 2:

Getting some bad reviews too which is that was probably the hardest thing at first is like, especially with Ghost of the Graveyard, like and we marketed Ghost of the Graveyard as a horror film, but it really wasn't a horror film. That I like to say. It was a ghost story with heart. There's a couple of creepy moments, but not really scary. If they're expecting a horror film and they don't get a horror film, they will rip you to shreds, and so we got I got pretty ripped Like I got. I won Best Director at a film festival, but I also was told I should never direct again If you have to separate yourself from that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, that was also your passion, you know, it was your passion to be a filmmaker as well, and not your job per se, right?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but ideally if it had blown up but it didn't, but it did okay. Maybe I would have done it full time, maybe it would have become the full time thing. I did look at it as a chance to transition to a full time career as a filmmaker. Now that didn't happen. I did have to go back to Wall Street for years and years. And what I'm doing at JGault helping small and immunized businesses get funding on their business, which is so needed, especially now and people don't know anything about that credit space but I love what I'm doing. I'm not gonna stop doing that no matter what. But ideally I'd be doing the filmmaking you know really full time and doing the JGault thing in conjunction with them. If Rub blows up, who knows? We were able to make Rub at a cheap enough point that we're going to make another film, probably the next year. It's just a matter of, you know, finding the time and everything, the right story.

Speaker 1:

And what do you want people to know about that production?

Speaker 2:

About Rub. Yes, honestly, I was very nervous when we spoke initially about the perception of the audiences to it, because the content is very raw. The director is a middle-aged male and he wrote it and directed it. There was that concern that was voiced by other people even that. You know that could become an issue. We might get critiqued for what we wrote. I mean we didn't pull any punches at all. The film is revolving around the sex trade and it's also revolving around this male that's got some issues and I'm very pleased that the critics were able to see that.

Speaker 2:

Just because the lead character says something, it doesn't mean that's our opinion, right, but there are a couple of critics who have not been able to separate our film from us or didn't like the message that was being said.

Speaker 2:

You live in a world right now where you have to be very careful about the way you phrase things and things like that. But it is a film that does deal with mental health. It's been called an incel culture film and the main character is basically a loner who most of his interaction is with computers and you know he's socially awkward and is not good at work interacting with people, although some people do like him because he's generally a good person. He does feel awkward in social situations and groups and he's awkward around women and it's affecting him mentally. I think it is an issue in society with phones and computers and things like that and his best relationships are with women online sexually and dating services and things like that, but he has no success with that and then eventually it leads him to a massage parlor where there are these women that are, you know, sex workers illegal aliens that are forced to be doing what they're doing.

Speaker 2:

Some people are always forced but maybe they feel they have no choice because there's nowhere to turn and they don't have the money and they're desperate to you and they're doing it. So there was like some important, you know subject matter in the subtext of the film. So we were nervous that you know it could be, we could be attacked for our viewpoint. But that's one of the things about being a filmmaker you open yourself up as an artist to critique and criticism and it's got amazing reviews and what a bunch of awards and the director is the one who receives the brunt of it. Writer, director that's the worst, you know. People are really harsh. Like I think there's a whole posse of people out there that just go out like they just spend all their time going out ripping films to shreds. You know it's kind of a shame. That's the world we live in.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. I have not seen the film, but you know when you were talking about. It's almost like isolation because of our computers and dating apps and things like that. It's all accessible just sitting at home. There have been topics around loneliness, especially with the younger generations, because they've become so dependent upon their phones, email, texting, snapchat, all of that other stuff, which does lead, then, to mental health. So I think the fact that you bring that about in your film is something that is a reality for a lot of people.

Speaker 2:

A lot of that is the heart of this film and Chris had a couple of things he was trying to say I think Mr Chris Fox, the writer director but that was one of them. And it's certainly a big part of the beginning of the film where we get to see his isolation and loneliness and mental state, that it was affecting his mental state and he's kind of bullied and ridiculed at work too, which is also a thing much less of a thing now in the workplace, thank God, because they're very sensitive to it. But it's something that exists in areas other than the workplace, in sports teams and schools and things like that. And so, even though we're showing a workplace, bullying people that do that and team up on other people. It's wrong and it should stop.

Speaker 2:

He made some beautiful points in the movie. It's an intense film. I wouldn't warn anybody. There's some sexual content, some drug use and things like that. So don't watch it with your 12-year-old or something I don't know what. Well, I used to go to movies, for I was 12, I probably shouldn't have too, but careful if the kiddos are around. But it's really proud of the film.

Speaker 1:

Awesome. Thank you for sharing all of that information. Is there anything you would like to add to our conversation today that maybe I forgot to touch upon?

Speaker 2:

No, I think we covered everything.

Speaker 1:

Okay, fair enough. Charlie, I thank you for being my guest today on the I Need Blue podcast.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, I thank you and, yeah, thank you for having me.

Speaker 1:

You're so welcome. Thank you for listening Today. This is Jen Lee with the I Need Blue podcast. You can find out everything about I Need Blue on my website, wwwineedbluenet. And remember you are stronger than you think upbeat music playing and signing off.