I Need Blue
I turned around to see a masked man pointing a gun at me. It was just the beginning of a series of events, including robbery and abduction, which changed my life forever. I Need Blue, hosted by Jen Lee, is a podcast series featuring lived-experiences from survivors of life events. I NEED BLUE creates space for survivors of trauma to feel they BELONG, are LOVED, UNDERSTOOD and EMPOWERED! I called 9-1-1 and they provided me with life-saving directions to help my customer who was having a medical emergency. Law enforcement rescued us and caught the robber. Our first-responders face unique traumas every day. I NEED BLUE provides space for them too!
I Need Blue
Navigating Grandparent Alienation: Maria's Journey Through Estrangement and Healing
Maria invites us into her heart-wrenching journey of family estrangement, where profound sadness overshadows the joy of being a grandparent.
Maria's experience highlights the emotional pain of being pushed aside by controlling dynamics in her daughter's marriage, leading to feelings of shame and failure. The gap between her cherished memories and the harsh reality of isolation is painfully evident.
Join us for this heartfelt conversation that celebrates the strength of motherhood and the resilience of the human spirit, inviting us all to embrace our own stories and the possibility of mending broken ties.
Connect with Jen:
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Website: https://ineedblue.net/
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/i-need-blue/id1567450935
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Purchase my book: Why I Survived: How Sharing My Story Helped Me Heal from Dating Abuse, Armed Robbery, Abduction, and Other Forms of Trauma by Jennifer Lee
https://whyisurvived.com/
The background music is written, performed and produced exclusively by Char Good.
https://chargood.com/home
Everyone has a story. They just don't always have a place to share it. Welcome to I Need Blue, the podcast about to take you on an extraordinary journey where profound narratives come to life, one captivating episode at a time. I'm your host, jennifer Lee, and I founded this podcast because I know there is healing and sharing. Each story you will hear shared on this podcast is a testament to our collective strength, innate ability to transform in the incredible power of healing. Please remember you are never alone. Please visit and share my website with those seeking connection and inspiration wwwineedbluenet. Thank you, char Good, for composing and performing the introduction medley for I Need Blue. You can find information about Char on her website, wwwchargoodcom.
Speaker 1:Before starting today's episode, I must provide a trigger warning. I Need Blue features graphic themes, including, but not limited to, violence, abuse and murder, and may not be suitable for all listeners. Please take care of yourself and don't hesitate to ask for help if you need it. Now let's get started with today's story Grandparent alienation. Alienation that is the topic of today's episode. The term grandparent alienation is a significant one, resonating deeply with so many families.
Speaker 1:My friend and guest, maria, is here today to share her journey which, though filled with heartbreak has been inspiring. She has turned her pain into a crucial mission to help others, all while navigating the deep hurt of being separated from her daughter and grandchildren, one of whom she's never even met. As she shares this deep secret and the emotional turmoil attached to it, she becomes a voice for others. Thank you. Despite living in the same city, the barriers she faced aren't logistical. They're rooted in her daughter's husband and mother-in-law's selfish control. Today, we're peeling back the layers of this intricate issue, illuminating a topic that many suffer in silence. It was decided to change names for the safety of others. Maria, thank you for trusting me to share this very present journey on the I Need Blue podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely. You know, I wanted to share a little backstory. You contacted me, you called me in November and you said Jen, I have something very heavy in my heart and I would like to share it on your podcast. And of course I had to put my podcast in pause, but now we're back. So I reached back out and you were like yes, I definitely want to share this story and, interestingly enough, in that time I've just now that I'm in a new community, I've met new people and I'm finding that this truly is more common than we think, but it's not really talked about, and so I appreciate you being here. I would like to kind of dive in and talk about what this journey has been like for you and, if we could, can we kind of start from the beginning, maybe when your daughter started dating her now husband, and how that relationship evolved? Sure Can.
Speaker 2:I go back just a little bit further for comparison. She's been in a long-term relationship before this one a long-term relationship before this one and I'm going to tell you that the relationship with her then boyfriend was fabulous. We got along well, we had a nice bond with his entire family and that relationship lasted several years. My daughter also would call me on a daily basis while she was in that relationship just to check in, mom, how you doing, either on her way to work or when she woke up in the morning. So we had a great relationship up to that point. She was in her early 20s when she met Mark and just noticed some things changed. He was very different from the other types of gentlemen that she had relationships with.
Speaker 2:I find myself making notes for this interview and feeling as though I need to justify. I didn't do something wrong, I'm not a terrible person. And I caught myself and I found that I'm not a terrible person and I'm not a terrible parent. And this has been going on for many years, close to seven years. I've kept quiet for so long.
Speaker 2:Finally getting to the point where I reconciled that she wasn't in my life is when I started talking about it, and that's when I started learning that there are so many other women and men who are experiencing this exact same pain, this hollowness, this exclusion, and it is incredibly heartbreaking as a failure, as a parent, especially when they invested so much of their lives in making a good life for their children and a good upbringing and so forth. We just shame ourselves into silence. I felt that, talking to you and to your listeners, hopefully I'm going to be able to help other people feel better, going to be able to help other people feel better. I don't have any solutions, unfortunately, but I'm really hoping that knowing that you're not the only one I know that made me feel so much better, knowing that I was not the only person out there going through this hell. My child is alive and does not want me in their life, and that's just really something that's difficult to reconcile.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. You know, as parents, we look forward to watching our children grow and go to college or have a job or a career, whatever their path is. You know, there's like curiosity for a parent as to, you know, what are they going to do and, of course, the marriage and the kids and all of those other things. And as grandparents, we look forward to being able to experience that alongside them and when that notion of, okay, I get to be a grandparent, you know, spoil them and just the way that our parents spoiled our kids, and then to realize, oh, that's not going to happen and you're not prepared for it, right?
Speaker 2:And that's it. I always look forward to my family growing, my daughters getting married and their husbands and their children, and the big holiday gatherings and making sure my house was big enough for when my kids had families and I guess that was a given I assumed that that's what I was going to get and that was in my future, so that's what made it even harder for me to accept the fact that I don't get this and it's not for me and I'm not going to have this privilege of being involved in her life with the grandchildren.
Speaker 1:You know I heard you say earlier when you finally accepted that she was not a part of your life, there's a grieving process that goes along with that. Can you tell me a little bit about that?
Speaker 2:For the first three years I still held hope. I thought she's going to come around. I had wonderful people tell me it's okay, it's not going to last, she'll snap out of it, she'll come back, it's going to be okay. Holidays I would just hug my other daughter and cry. You know, christmas, the first couple of Christmases, I couldn't help it.
Speaker 2:But I, when I saw her, I'd cry and um and then, just knowing that she rejected me, she doesn't want me in her life, I would call her and I would say you know, how can I fix this? How can we make this right? Tell me what I need to do. I don't understand what I've done. I would wake up in the middle of the night and just cry, just realizing this is what's happening.
Speaker 2:And that went on for several years and finally something just helped me build a wall and I think what I had to do was let go of the hope that this is going to come around and kind of keeping my heart open for her to come back. And I finally said you know what? I've got to build a wall around myself to protect myself from this, because it's so incredibly painful and I constant reminders and just build the wall around and let go and go. You know what, accept what I've got, this is what I have, and accept the fact that it's not going to change. And when I got to that point is when I started feeling stronger. I didn't hurt all the time, waking up during the night, crying stopped. So there's a lot of that that helped once I got to that point but it took me many years to get to that point, because it's a mother's love and you love your children unconditionally, even though they've hurt you so much by what they've done. But your own love is actually being weaponized against you.
Speaker 1:And we live in such a different world than you and I. We didn't have internet growing up, so now you go on Facebook and you see all your friends and their kids come over and their grandkids come over and it's like a constant reminder of what you don't have. You're really happy for your friends and your other family, but you're constantly like, wow, I wish that was me. It's hard to literally cut it off. And you're right about the mother's love thing. It's our job to fix the boo-boos right. It's like this is a boo-boo. There's not a bandage big enough, long enough, strong enough to fix it. You feel helpless helpless and in your situation, like many, it was because of somebody else that have alienated your daughter and your grandchildren from you. So can you tell me from the outsider, looking in the parent looking at their child? When did you notice behavior? When did things start to change? Was it while they were dating?
Speaker 2:So they actually, their relationship lasted and I'm just guessing roughly maybe three to four years before they were married. So they were living together and she still had a relationship with me. She lived very close, within five minutes. We'd see each other often. She, you know, sometimes she'd do some things that were a little odd and I'd be like you know, we're a little bit of a mean, a mean thing to say that normally wasn't like her. It's totally out of character. But you know, I kind of ignore it and just say you know, you know, just, she's going through something. We all get kind of cranky and let it go. The big catalyst, I think, was there was a tragedy in the family and a trauma bond was formed. I assume but it's only my opinion there was a terrible tragedy. From that point is when I saw big changes and really felt isolated and blamed for things that I didn't do.
Speaker 1:And we talked about how we have great in-laws Like I have been blessed with. You know, my prior in-laws were fabulous and my new in-laws are fabulous. They're not even in-laws, I just they're just family right. And so, in this situation, had you met the mother-in-law? How was that?
Speaker 2:them at rest. And then, after the tragedy, things were very I had no relationship with her. She did not reach out to me or there really wasn't any reason to. The only time that she kind of came back into the picture along with my daughter was almost three years later, when my current son-in-law proposed to my daughter. So now they're engaged and mother-in-law has come back into my life and you'd think we were best friends since the beginning.
Speaker 2:I felt like a really nice, warm relationship and we would get together and just talk about the kids and maybe have a glass of wine. Then, closer to the wedding, she asked me for $3,000. And I know that my daughter had told me earlier that she goes. Mom, I don't want a big wedding, I want a small wedding. The mother-in-law is very much a flamboyant. Let's make it bigger, everything's got to be over the top.
Speaker 2:And she wanted money and I said you know what I'm going to do. I said, no, I'm not going to give you money, but what I'm going to do is I'm going to contribute. So my daughter's biological father and I paid for her wedding dress, which was several thousand dollars, and then I paid for a photographer, which was close to $3,000. I also told them that I would buy them a tabletop book from whatever their wedding photos were that they liked and they wanted. Normally I don't keep track of money, but in reflection I'm going well, what did I do for them? What did I, you know, did I spend enough? Because I'm hearing through other family members that, well, you know, I contributed this much and I contributed that much. And I'm thinking, and then they go, you know. So she's saying you didn't give anything. And I'm like whoa, wait a minute, I didn't hand her cash, but I did contribute to my daughter's wedding.
Speaker 1:So they get married. What were things like?
Speaker 2:after that. So she was pregnant when they were married and they had a gender reveal at the wedding. I thought that, since she had planned the whole wedding, and I understood I don't know anything about weddings and I told my daughter. I said, listen, when it comes time for me to have to do something, just tell me, because I don't understand how this rolls. So just tell me what I need to do. And she's like, okay. So she never said anything and the wedding went off, it was fine and the gender was revealed and I'm thinking okay, mother-in-law got the wedding, I get the baby shower, because the baby's coming in a couple months. One of her girlfriends, or one of her bridesmaids, was due within two weeks of my daughter. So I called her and I said listen, when are you planning your baby shower? So we don't conflict, because I want to have one at my house and I want to make sure you can attend and the other bridesmaids can attend too. So let me know.
Speaker 2:And somehow this gets back to mother-in-law and my daughter and her husband. Take my husband and I out to breakfast and they break the news over breakfast that they do not want me to throw the baby shower, and I couldn't understand why. And they said, well, no, we're going to do our own shower, but why, if I can do the whole thing for you? I wasn't looking for money, I wasn't looking for help, I was looking for a schedule and availability of her friends. They said, no, no, we're throwing our own baby shower Gosh, that sounds odd. No, we're throwing our own baby shower Gosh, that sounds odd.
Speaker 2:So baby shower comes and I feel like an outsider at my daughter's baby shower. She doesn't talk to me, she stays in her bedroom. I was two or three hours early to help set up. There was nothing for me to do, cold shoulder from mother-in-law. You know, when you're not welcome, you get that feeling. You're not welcome here, and she made that very clear. So I still stayed. During the shower I heard her making comments to people about me that weren't untrue. It's just very mean. And then that is when things just kind of went. You know it's 2020. We've got COVID, we've got restrictions, nobody can go to the hospital. It's kind of when she went out of my life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, did they call you when the baby was born, or were you invited to the hospital to be a part of that?
Speaker 2:We were not invited to the hospital. To be a part of that, I will tell you that at the same time I was diagnosed with breast cancer. So I believe within days of my breast cancer surgery my granddaughter was born. So it was kind of understandable that we weren't, you know, included or brought to the hospital or anything along that line. Plus, I believe the hospitals were, it was only the father only was allowed with the baby. But we did see the baby a few days after my surgery and I got to see her through a little crack in a sliding glass door, which was still wonderful.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I don't think I realized this that you were actually going through breast cancer during this whole process. So you're already dealing with the emotions I can't imagine. Let me just say that for support and to be there, because we just we want that hug, like their hug just motivates us to keep going and want to stay healthy and all of those other things right. It's like a natural endorphin.
Speaker 2:Jen, your words are. It couldn't be truer. I just needed that little bit of can I lean into you and have a little emotional hug, and I got nothing near that. I actually remember showing her the surgery site because I got the feeling that she didn't believe that I was going through this and that I was lying for attention. And that hurt incredibly. And that wasn't the little girl I raised, that wasn't the young woman that she was before she met him. So that was just another pain on top of it.
Speaker 1:Wow, I can't imagine. I'm crying with you. Yeah, I feel it and yeah, I'm just so glad you're here. It's your strength and perseverance and prayers, and, of course, I know you have great friends.
Speaker 2:I have great friends and I have the absolute best husband and he has gotten me through so much and he's going through this with me. You know he came into the girl's lives when they were six and ten years old, so he's pretty much been their father for years from the beginning. So this is his pain too. He just quietly keeps it inside.
Speaker 1:Yeah, men, they definitely deal with it a little bit differently, a different type of helplessness, because they're helpless and like, how do I help my wife, who's also the mother of my children, and then how do I help my children? Yes, absolutely, you know. I think it's not that we want to control a situation, we want to be included.
Speaker 2:That's it. I just want to be included. Don't need to have control, don't need to have a say in anything. Just when you get together for a birthday, when you get together for a holiday, just say, hey, you want to come over and just kind of sit, sit, enjoy, you know, just be a part of it. And that's really what. What hurts the most is that I'm not included. Um, and you know, the birthdays come and go. I do not have anybody sending me pictures of my grandkids, even though I've asked him. You know, can you please? During that time when mother-in-law and I were on good terms, I made relationships, developed relationships with the rest of the family. His grandmother, his aunt are just wonderful women. They understand this. They've seen this before in a previous generation. So I had that and I'm like, please send me pictures. And I think that there's a concern that if I post those pictures on social media, that there's going to be ramifications from mother-in-law. I think that there's a lot of concern and they try to avoid the wrath of mother-in-law.
Speaker 1:For you as the mom, it's what I would call a balancing act between how much do I try to get to my daughter, communicate to my daughter, try to see my grandkids ask for pictures without? Well, I don't want the mother-in-law to just get pissed, quite frankly, at my daughter and take it out on her and scold her.
Speaker 2:So what I've been told from these two women is that my daughter's cell phone is not her own, that if there are missed calls or any indication that there's been communication that she would suffer consequences and they're emotional, that there's been communication that she would suffer consequences and they're emotional, those are things that I know. She suffers consequences and she is a very easygoing, want to make people, everybody happy, type person. So she will sacrifice and I've seen that throughout her life she will sacrifice something that would make her very happy if somebody else wanted something different. Badly enough, I'm just seeing that the things that she's told me prior to meeting this family there are things that she did and did not want. I know that she's tolerating a lot of things that she didn't really want.
Speaker 1:At the end of the day, mom knows her kids. So first grandbaby, you got to see through a craft.
Speaker 2:I did. And then I told my husband. I said, listen, we need to, like, get on a schedule, because you know things were strained and she was distant for a few years before the wedding. I'm like, listen, let's get on a schedule, let's try to see that baby every week. So I'll make a phone call or swing by. And of course they lived just a few miles away from um, from where I worked. So I'm like, okay, let's okay, hi, can, can we? Can we come by on Saturday? Uh, no, husband's not going to be there. Uh, oh, okay. Um, how about Sunday? Don't know if husband's going to be. I'm like, okay, and another time I would call and say you want to go out to lunch? I'll swing by, I'll grab you and the baby. Let's go grab a sandwich. This would be wonderful. No, he's not going to be home, nobody's going to be here. And I started thinking, gosh, she needs permission. That's the only way thing I could pick out of. That is, she needs permission to see, for us to come see the baby.
Speaker 2:So then one time we did finally arrange things. My husband and I went over, I laid down on the floor with my granddaughter, who was already sitting up by now and I I read her a book and she sat there riveted and it was amazing. My husband watched sitting on the sofa. And then I looked and and her husband is sitting on the other sofa watching like a hawk and I'm like no, that's just me, that's just me. And then after we left, I said to my husband I said, did that feel weird to you or was it me? He goes oh no, that was a supervised visitation and during that my daughter stayed busy in the kitchen and she was doing something. She didn't come over to have a conversation with us, she didn't come over to greet us or do anything. It was like we weren't even there. She's busy in the kitchen doing her thing. It was very awkward and I believe that that was probably the last time you saw a grand daughter, wow.
Speaker 1:And so the grandbaby was sitting up at that point. So met her a month old, yes, wow. And since then there's been another grandchild, right.
Speaker 2:There has. Yes, another grandchild was born. I know that I actually got a phone call from my daughter and she said Mom, I'm pregnant again. And it was just such a. It was a phone call a daughter makes to her mom Mom, I'm pregnant again, but don't say anything to everybody because mother-in-law doesn't know yet. I'm like I'm not going to say anything. And then the next thing you know, there's a gender reveal and we weren't invited and I'm like gosh, why so? And then we've never met him. We've never been that kind of baby.
Speaker 1:When she called to tell you she was pregnant, she hadn't even told the mother-in-law yet. Man, that probably made you feel just so happy, like, okay, maybe there is hope. You know, maybe things are going to come around and then the gender reveal happens and you're not invited, you're not told about it. So it's like a seesaw or tug of war inside.
Speaker 2:It is Part of me goes. Maybe I am glad that I'm not included, because then they would really be able to weaponize and use the children to hurt me more if I was included and then punished for arbitrary things. And it's so important for people to know that there is no catalyst. There was, well, this was the day of the big fight or this was the day of whatever. There's none of that, and let you know.
Speaker 1:let me say that one thing we need to teach the world is grace. We all make mistakes. So even if there would have been a fight with your daughter or somebody like that, like at some point you recognize, okay, this family unit, my child, my mom, you know, we need to come together, we need to have grace on the situation and come together and function as a family for the child, right? I think grace is something people seem to forget about. So even if you said something, that was fine, but then, you know, the husband took it and was like, oh, I'm so offended, blah, blah, blah. So at what point does he hold himself accountable and say you know what? I'm going to have grace on this situation and we're going to move forward.
Speaker 2:I think that's a great, a great approach, jen, and I really think that that's something that requires a little self-reflection and a little bit of maturity and a little bit of empathy, and I don't believe any one of those three exist, and that's why I am where I am today.
Speaker 1:So describe to us where you are today. Obviously, you found the courage to open up and share and I'm honored. But tell us where you are today.
Speaker 2:I'm very grateful for this opportunity to speak and have more people listen and maybe help other people feel a little bit better about themselves and the situation they're in with their children and grandchildren, and to help people understand that this pain they're not going through this pain alone. Many of us did not deserve it. I don't think anybody actually deserves this kind of pain. It's a torment and I just wanted to help other people maybe feel a little bit better that not to be so hard on themselves, that you can be a wonderful person and have really crummy things happen to you. It's still a battle. I still have dreams.
Speaker 2:Once in a while I'll shed a tear just in the middle of the afternoon. The pain's there. Those are days I'll never have back. I'll never be able to cuddle them and hold them while they're tiny, and will they ever know who I am? Will they never know what their history is on this side of the family and there's a good possibility that that may never happen, and of course, it's not just me and my husband my daughter has no communication with her sister or her brother-in-law. Our side of the family, our history, is being erased in our grandchildren's eyes and minds.
Speaker 1:And it's very much a family thing. I know we would make the topic grandparent alienation but, like you said, your daughter, her sister, is being alienated as well. It's definitely a family thing and imagine having to be a person so insecure that you have to try to wipe out other people, other side of the family. They need prayers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think they need more than prayers, I think they need some therapy. I think that they they need some accountability, because I'm also very angry about this because it's it's really inexcusable and and and these people really need to understand what they're doing is wrong on many levels, and then you know to go and say, if somebody does inquire, you know, I kind of heard oh you don't, you don't know both sides of the story. And I said to the person who told me this, I said well then would you find out what their side of the story is so I can understand and I can fix this. It's a shame, it's a farce, but they're living in their happy, their happy world and apparently they're very happy with what they have, or they're incredibly unhappy and this is not making them happier, but it satisfies some sort of a dark need to inflict pain on other people for no good reason.
Speaker 1:I am glad you shared. There's a saying secrets make you sick, and so I think that when we're able to open up in a safe space and share and realize we're not alone, it helps overcome part of that grieving process when we know we actually have a support system behind us.
Speaker 2:I agree and I'm so thankful that you allowed me this opportunity to speak, and every time I talk about it I heal a little bit more and you know the scar will always be there, but the wound is getting smaller now that I'm talking about it, and I encourage people who are keeping this secret to talk about it and share. Stop blaming yourself, stop scrutinizing every little thing you did when they were little kids and what you might have done wrong, because that's not what it is. The relationship was solid. The relationship was happy as she was an adult. It's when she went into a relationship with this person, is when things changed with this person is when things changed.
Speaker 1:Yes, and you know what? Speaking of grace, I think you need to have grace on yourself. Allow yourself to grieve, allow yourself to talk, allow yourself to follow whatever process you have, but have grace on yourself. You know, sometimes we're so worried about how to treat other people or whatever, we forget about ourselves, but have grace on yourself. Yeah, you're great. Is there anything else you would like to add to this conversation?
Speaker 2:I think that you've allowed me the opportunity to cover everything that I needed to say and to allow out of my heart, and I think that speaking with you has allowed some darkness to leave and a little bit of light to come in. So thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Of course, anytime, and you know you have my number so you can call me anytime you want and sometime we'll get together because there's healing in hugs. I truly believe that I'm going to put this out there and you can do it or not. If your daughter was listening. Would you like to share some words you would share?
Speaker 2:with her. I'm going to tear up, but I'm going to tell you. I'm going to tell her. I told her this one time and I want to say it was right around the baby shower time I love you, I will always love you. I am your mother and I will never stop loving you. I will always be your mother. When you are ready, I will be here for you with open arms and I will help you begin a new life. If that's what you choose, I will do everything in my power to protect you.
Speaker 1:Thank you. I have tears in my eyes as well, as a mom, you know. I think there are several moms out there that are going to relate to exactly what you just shared. Thank you for opening up your heart and sharing that with us.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. I appreciate the opportunity. You've done so much for me, just having this interview.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, Maria. Thank you for being my guest on the I Need Blue podcast. To learn anything and everything about I Need Blue, visit my website, wwwinadebluenet, and remember you are stronger than you think. Until next time.
