I Need Blue
I turned around to see a masked man pointing a gun at me. It was just the beginning of a series of events, including robbery and abduction, which changed my life forever. I Need Blue, hosted by Jen Lee, is a podcast series featuring lived-experiences from survivors of life events. I NEED BLUE creates space for survivors of trauma to feel they BELONG, are LOVED, UNDERSTOOD and EMPOWERED! I called 9-1-1 and they provided me with life-saving directions to help my customer who was having a medical emergency. Law enforcement rescued us and caught the robber. Our first-responders face unique traumas every day. I NEED BLUE provides space for them too!
I Need Blue
Adam: Shots Fired; The Call That Changed Everything
As a child, Adam watched police cars race past his window, dreaming of becoming an “ER car man.” That dream came true through military service and police work—until a call to Walmart on April 8, 2016, changed everything. Confronted by a woman with a hatchet, Adam made a split-second decision to use deadly force. Though cleared by investigators, the incident triggered a silent battle with PTSD. “I knew what I had done. I changed lives. I took her life, I changed my life,” he says.
What follows is a brutally honest account of self-destruction. Adam reveals how he drowned his trauma in alcohol, numbed himself through casual encounters, and pushed away those who cared about him. Most shocking is the institutional response—after years of exemplary service, his department issued a cease-and-desist order to stop speaking about his mental health and eventually terminated him. “I was completely ghosted by everybody,” Adam recalls.
After proper mental health treatment arranged by his sister, Adam returned to policing as a captain at a department that actively supports his mental health advocacy. He now works to shatter the stigma around first responder trauma through his organization.
Do you know someone struggling with invisible wounds? Adam's message is clear: healing is possible, help is available, and no one should suffer in silence.
Connect with Adam:
Website: StopTheThreatStopTheStigma.org
Email: adam@stopthethreatstopthestigma.org
Connect with Jen:
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https://www.instagram.com/ineedbluepodcast/
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp1q8SfA_hEXRJ4EaizlW8Q
Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61567221068683
Website:
https://ineedblue.net/
Apple Podcasts:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/i-need-blue/id1567450935
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Purchase my book or Audiobook: Why I Survived: How Sharing My Story Helped Me Heal from Dating Abuse, Armed Robbery, Abduction, and Other Forms of Trauma by Jennifer Lee
https://whyisurvived.com/
Imagine when you share your darkest hours they become someone else's light. I'm Jennifer Lee, a global community storyteller, host, author and survivor, guiding you through genuine, unfiltered conversations. Together, we break the silence, shatter stigma and amplify voices that need to be heard. Each episode stands as a testament to survival, healing and reclaiming your power. Listen to I Need Blue on Apple Podcasts, spotify, youtube or your favorite platform. Learn more at wwwineedbluenet. Trigger warning I Need Blue shares real, real life stories of trauma, violence and abuse meant to empower and support.
Speaker 1:Please take care of yourself and ask for help if needed. Now let's begin today's story. Since he was a little boy, adam always knew he was born to serve. The sound of sirens didn't scare him. They called him. While other kids ran from the window, adam ran toward it wide-eyed and heart-pounding, dreaming of the day he'd wear the badge. That dream led him through college, the military and eventually into a patrol car of his own.
Speaker 1:Then, friday, april 8, 2016, 5.15 pm, a call came in. Sirens screamed. Adam raced toward danger, this time to a Walmart where his life would change forever. That evening, adam was involved in an officer-involved shooting. What followed was a silence more deafening than the sirens, a cease and desist letter pressure to stay quiet about his emotional turmoil and eventually, in ultimatum, resign or face termination. But Adam didn't stay silent. In 2019, he began to share his truth with anyone willing to listen. The weight of PTSD nearly crushed him. He coped the only way. He knew how, ways that weren't healthy but felt necessary at the time. His story is raw, honest and human. Today, adam shares his healing journey to ignite hope, speak truth to trauma and to honor the little boy who still runs to the window when he hears sirens. It is my absolute honor to welcome Adam, captain of Police for the Hartford Township Police Department, as today's special guest. Adam, thank you for your courage, thank you for accepting my invitation and welcome to the I Need Blue podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Jen. I really appreciate this opportunity and look forward to sharing my experience with you and everyone else who wants to listen.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and what's interesting is I found you through a Facebook post, and we know how important social media is, so thank you for posting, and I'm so thankful that I was led to your post and we were able to connect.
Speaker 2:I agree, social media is great when it works and it helps me share my experience with others and reach people that I wouldn't normally reach, and that's why we're here together and I think it's wonderful.
Speaker 1:Adam, I know it's really important for you to be a resource to others who are suffering in silence.
Speaker 2:Go ahead, share your email address so others can get a hold of you as they listen to this conversation, if they need someone to reach out to. Sure, I'm the founder of Stop the Threat, stop the Stigma. You can visit me at StopTheThreatStopTheStigmaorg Once you go there. My email address is there, adam, at StopTheThreatStopTheStigmaorg, and you can also find my phone number there. You can call me, you can text me. I look forward to hearing from from anybody.
Speaker 1:if they if they need something, please reach out as a mom of two boys and they loved police fire. You know they had their fire boots, their whatever get ups halloween costumes. So when I think of that little boy that would go running to the window when they hear sirens, it takes me back to my little boys. Tell me what you were feeling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I'm 50 years old now but I'm still that little boy because every time I hear a siren I still go run into the window or look out the car window and try to see what's coming up the road. It's just exciting to me trying to see what's coming up the road. It's just exciting to me. And I was born and raised in the city of Racine, which is in Wisconsin, on Highway 20, which is also Washington Avenue. It's one of the main thoroughfares in and out of the city of Racine and as far back as I can remember and as far back as my parents told me, every time I heard a siren I would run up to that window and look outside hoping to see a police car. Fire engines are cool too. So are ambulances and everything else that makes a siren. I love it all, but I was looking for that police car and every time that I would see a police car go by with the lights and sirens going, I would tell my parents an er car, an er car because of the siren, the ER, and it would make me excited. I absolutely loved it. I still love it, and my parents said the first time I saw a police officer get out of a police car or an ER car. I looked at them and I said an ER car man, when I grow up, I want to be an ER car man.
Speaker 2:So as far back as I can remember, that was my dream. I always wanted to be an ERCAR man, a police officer, and so I graduated from high school. I went into college and secured a criminal justice degree and then joined the army, where I had my first experiences in law enforcement as a military police officer. And I still remember my first call as a military police officer. It was at the post office on base and I remember seeing myself in a window and I'm like this is great, I love being a cop, and I just continued to pursue that. Once my career in the military ended, I went back home to Racine and I was lucky enough to get hired by the Racine Police Department where it all started. It was absolutely a dream come true.
Speaker 1:I am still smiling from the ER car story.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:You are smiling, people can hear it in your voice your passion, your purpose and all of that. Yeah, if you're not smiling, I don't know. It's great. It's like I want everybody to be a part of this conversation, but thank you so much for sharing that. And I'll tell you as a child, I went to a Catholic school and whenever we heard sirens, we would stop and we were taught to pray for whoever was in the accident, to pray for the first responders.
Speaker 2:That's great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and to pray for the families involved. So that was from a little girl. That was what we were taught not knowing what actually you all see and things like that.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you for doing that, because I was born and raised Lutheran, I was baptized, I was confirmed. I believe in prayer, I believe prayer is real and it works. So thank you for doing that.
Speaker 1:So I have to ask you were talking about being a police officer in the military. How does that differ versus being, like, chief of police you are now?
Speaker 2:A lot of people don't know. I mean, there's still crimes that occur on base, there's people that aren't military that come and go from the base and there's retail stores on the base, there's restaurants, there's car crashes, there's domestic abuse, there's all kinds of stuff that goes on. So I mean, that's how I got my feet wet and got into law enforcement and there are some differences with training and stuff like that. I mean, when I was in the military there were two types of military police. One was combat support, which we were all trained as soldiers to be military police in case we had to go to war. And then there's something called garrison law enforcement, which is kind of like what you see in the civilian law enforcement profession. When you see the police car, the uniform, they're doing traffic stops, they're catching speed or stuff like that.
Speaker 2:And I was able to get involved in the garrison side of law enforcement right away because when we would do gate duty, you know, let cars in and out and check everybody's ID and registration and stuff like that, I would go to one of the local dollar stores and I would buy these little black and white matchbox cars and if there was a kid in a car I would hand them out to the little kids because I remember a police officer doing that when I was in elementary school. I thought it was the coolest thing in the world. So I figure, what's a couple bucks? You know, I can take 10 bucks to the dollar store, get 10 little matchbox police cars and hand them out to the kids. So we had something called a provost marshal, which is kind of like the chief of police, and he saw that I was doing that and he pulled me off the gate duty and the combat support duties and put me on the bike patrol.
Speaker 2:So I got to do law enforcement bike patrol. I got to dress up as Darren the dare lion, mcgruff the crime dog. I mean, I loved it. My experience in the army I knew right then I wanted to be a cop. I'm like this is my dream come true. I'm doing it.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. I'm like you're like the favorite uncle of police officers. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I have, you know, I have three nieces and they actually bought me a t-shirt that says Funkle, because I'm the fun uncle and yeah, it's great. So that's funny.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm envisioning. As you're talking, I was like this is great, yeah, and that's what.
Speaker 2:I'm envisioning as you're talking. I was like this is great.
Speaker 1:You really humanize being a police officer because you, ultimately, you protect us and put your life on the line, but you're still a person. You're still a dad, you're still the uncle, the funcle as you call it. You know.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So you had your career in the military, and what made you leave?
Speaker 2:the military. Then, well, I was active duty in the Army for five years and then, you know, after my time was up, I could have re-upped or kind of re-enlisted or left, and at the time I was married and I had one daughter and I figured we would just move back home to Racine and start our life together. And that's what we decided to do. And after, figured we would just move back home to Racine and start our life together. And that's what we decided to do. And after about a year of applying at police departments, I was hired by the Racine Police Department.
Speaker 1:What was it like for you and what was it like for your family?
Speaker 2:It was great for me. People always say don't put your job first. You know, family's more important and it is. It truly is. But I was a cop 24 hours a day, 365, you know a year, and you know live, eat, breathe, law enforcement. And I started realizing when I was walking around the house that I didn't see myself in any pictures and it wasn't because I was the person taking pictures of my, you know, wife now ex-wife but my wife and kids it's because I was working so much or I was sleeping, so I wasn't involved.
Speaker 2:And you know, also with Racine. Racine's a bigger city, it's located between Chicago, illinois, and Milwaukee, wisconsin, and I was a third shift evidence technician. So I would go to a lot of the homicides, a lot of the drive-bys, a lot of the gang complaints, fatal crashes, and I started becoming callous to these complaints shot and killed. And I walked in the door and I looked to the right. I had all my gear with me. I looked to the right and I saw a gentleman deceased. He had been shot in the men's bathroom while he was going out the door and he was just laying there deceased and I was thinking, okay, I can get to work, it's just another body. But it's not. It's not to me, it's more than that and I also assisted in processing the crime scene of a triple homicide. Seven people were shot, three were killed and it's my understanding that it was one gang that shot each other over money, old, in a dice game.
Speaker 2:And I remember looking at an 18-year-old that was shot and killed and he was laying on the ground in a parking lot and he had his cell phone in one hand and he had a loaded gun in the other hand and he was laying there flinching because he was shot multiple times and 18 years old and that is still somebody's son. That is still a life that's gone. I mean, I get it and a lot of people understand hey, if you're gangbanging and you, it comes to the territory. If you live that lifestyle, it might catch up to you, but that is still somebody's loved one, somebody's possibly a brother, a son. He could have been a father, but I started getting callous to that. So I started looking for jobs and that's when I moved up north. You know, kind of uprooted the family and moved up north and tried to get back to basics as a family, took another police job, but then after about a year the marriage fell apart and then we ended up getting a divorce, so it didn't work out so well.
Speaker 1:When you say you started to get callous to the job. What does that mean? What does that look like?
Speaker 2:Kind of numb, to everything around me, just doing my job, kind of emotionless, if that's even a word. You know, when I walked into that bar and I put my gear down, I looked to the right and I saw that man, just deceased, laying there with the door halfway propped open and I can still see it now. It was just kind of like all right, get to work, you know, take some photographs and do this, that and the other thing. And it was catching up to me and I still did a good job, I still loved the job I was doing. But I was kind of like desensitized to the stuff and I didn't like that. It wasn't really who I was, it wasn't how I was born and raised, and my parents instilled good morals and work ethics in me and to treat everybody equal, and I was just kind of like, yeah, it's just another body. I didn't like that feeling. So then I just started looking for other jobs.
Speaker 1:You know something you said earlier when you were in the military and you walked by and you saw your reflection in the glass, you were like, yes, this is what I want to do. I'm right where I want to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But then you're walking through your house and you look up at the photos on the wall and there's no reflection of you because you are not in those pictures.
Speaker 2:Right, I wasn't present, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yes, what an awakening, what a realization.
Speaker 2:And it was when I worked for the city of Racine. I was full time, obviously, but then I even picked up a part time police officer job on one of the police departments that was close to the city of Racine that had lake patrol. So you know, on my days off I'd be out on the boat doing police work and then I was always working. And it's not what it's all about. I mean, if you don't put your family first, you're going to lose your family. They say a lot of first responders, including police officers, they get divorced because, at least for me, I worked all the time. I was too into my job and I wasn't into my family and that, and they suffered.
Speaker 2:I, I worked third shift and I remember my ex-wife telling me that she didn't like that. It worked well for the kids, it worked well for her job, but she didn't like the fact that I went to you know work at 11 PM, you know, and she went to bed at night so she'd be sleeping by herself and it wasn't very comfortable for her and really didn't listen, really didn't pay much attention. I was just finally doing the job I wanted and loved and it was kind of just selfish and all about me and ultimately, our marriage ended in divorce. So put your family first. Put your wife, your girlfriend, your boyfriend, your spouse first. Those are going to be the people that support you when you go through rough times. You know, like I did, I went through rough times and you know your kids are going to support you in a way. Your spouse is going to support you in a way. It's important. It's important to communicate and to let them know that you're there and you support them, because they're going to support you eventually.
Speaker 1:You know, as numb as you had become to seeing dead bodies, violence, things like this. As numb as you were, was there almost an addiction to the adrenaline that goes along with going on a police call.
Speaker 2:Without a doubt, absolutely. You know, especially third shift. I love to work in third shift because all the calls that we got dispatched to were legit. They weren't just, you know, trouble with kids or a fake business alarm. When you got dispatched you know you were going to the real deal. So I mean it was an adrenaline rush and nothing else compares to it. I mean you could be going just putting around at 10 miles an hour. Then all of a sudden you're going 110 miles an hour. You know it's great, it's exciting, it's dangerous, but it is, it's that adrenaline rush.
Speaker 1:When you have that adrenaline, does fear not exist.
Speaker 2:I think you have a little bit of anxiety, but your training kicks in. You know, just like athletes sports athletes they have a little anxiety, but that helps you right, even like if you're public speed, I think, at least for me. I'm very focused on the task at hand and what I know I have to do, and that just takes over. I mean, in Wisconsin, police officers and first responders are very well trained and a lot of times I just did what I was trained to do. I guess you would say instinctively, because I didn't realize I would, I would do certain things and then you would check the body camera or the squad car camera and it's like, yeah, okay, yeah, I forgot, I did that, but I did it.
Speaker 2:Fear I don't think I was afraid. I just I knew it was time for me to do my job, to do real police work, and people depend on the police to protect them, to keep them safe, to help them, and I, at least. For me, there's no time to take a step back and be afraid of something, because I'm not going to be able to help somebody if I'm fearful of everything.
Speaker 1:When did you realize that your experiences you had as a police officer, you were not processing them in healthy ways?
Speaker 2:On April 8th 2016,. I was involved in a critical incident at a police department up north from the city of Racine and I used deadly force on someone who armed themselves with a hatchet inside our Walmart store and initially the call was non-emergent. I was sitting at the police department typing up a retail theft report from another retail store called Shopko it doesn't exist anymore and I get dispatched to Walmart and it was basically can you respond and assist a couple chaperones with somebody who's refusing to leave the store? And it's not a big deal. We do that a lot of times. We do it at restaurants, at retail stores, at people's homes, other businesses, so not a big deal not emergent. So I acknowledged and I grabbed my laptop, walked out of the back of the police department and jumped in my ER car, my squad car, and just started driving to Walmart. I found out that initially that one of the chaperones called 911 and ended up being a hangup call and then dispatch called her back and then kept her on the line the whole time and kind of gave me the play by play as to what was going on inside Walmart. Her name was Melissa, she was a patient at a state mental health facility and she was out on a good behavior pass, it's my understanding and they had gone to a restaurant. And then they went across the street to Walmart and the chaperone said it's time to leave and she didn't want to leave. So she walked back to the supporting goods section and ripped open a hatchet from the packaging. They called 911 and I was responding and initially dispatch advised me that she was trying to remove a knife from the package and not that a knife would have been any less threatening, but that's what I thought it was, you know, the typical pocket knife that a lot of people carry. And so when I heard that, I turned down my lights and sirens and I started stepping it up, traveling at a higher rate of speed.
Speaker 2:Now, walmart was, you know, maybe a mile and a half away from the police department. So I got there fairly quickly and initially I was going to respond through the auto center. Walmart is usually set up the same you have the auto center, you have the sporting goods section and I knew she was back in sporting goods. So I wanted to respond through the auto center and hopefully keep her contained back there, so she didn't walk to the front of the store. Now, this was on a Friday at 5.15 PM, super busy in the store, hundreds of people in the store. But then dispatch advised me she's threatening customers, she's walking towards the front of the store. So my whole plan of responding changed right there.
Speaker 2:So what I did is I entered the parking lot. And I still remember all these people in the parking lot. They wouldn't get out of the way. They were looking at my police car kind of like hey, what's going on? And I'm thinking, will you please move? There's a true emergency in there where you get out of the way. And finally I was able to park in front of the general merchandise entrance and what I did was I parked my squad car and I turned my sirens off but I left the lights going because I was hoping that if anybody else would be responding to Walmart and they would see my squad car in front of that door, they would think twice about going through that door.
Speaker 2:So I parked, I exited my squad car and drew my weapon right away because I didn't know where she was. I knew she was walking towards the front of the store and there was a man and a woman there and I said where is she? And they kind of pointed down towards the lawn and garden, the health and beauty aisle, which is a main aisle, and I ran down there and I made contact with her and her back was facing me and it looked like she was hacking up something on a pallet. And you know, I identified myself. She turned and faced me and that's when I realized that's not a knife, that's a hatchet. Face me and that's when I realized that's not a knife, that's a hatchet. So I gave her multiple verbal commands to stop, to drop the hatchet. She wouldn't listen to me, she kept advancing towards me and then I made the decision to shoot her and I shot twice. One round went in and out of one of her legs and the second round struck her kind of center mass in the sternum and she fell to the ground and she did end up dying hours later after surgery.
Speaker 2:But I know that when I pulled the trigger, that changed everything. I changed lives. I took her life, I changed my lives, those who witnessed the shooting because there was about a dozen people there that watched everything happen, and even people on the other side of the store that may have heard the gunshots and think, oh my gosh, what happened. So everybody was affected one way or another. And I remember after shooting I looked around at the customers that were there and I said please check yourself and please check each other, because I wanted to make sure my two shots only hit her and nobody else. So while they were doing that, I also looked at a Walmart employee and I said please get on the intercom and please ask if there's a nurse or a doctor to please come over here and help until the ambulance get here. And there was actually a nurse in the light bulb aisle and she goes. I'm a nurse, so she came over and helped until the ambulance showed up and that nurse even wrote a statement and she said she was in the light bulb aisle by herself and when I was yelling very loudly drop it, drop it she dropped the light bulb, thinking I was yelling at her, even though she couldn't see what was going on. So everything seemed surreal.
Speaker 2:I knew what I had done. I don't have any doubt in my mind that I did the right thing because I had been a police officer I want to say gosh, 15 years, 14 years. At the time. I had a lot of training and experience. I was a firearms instructor. If I could have used my pepper spray, I would have my taser, I would have my baton I would have, but she could have killed me or she could have killed somebody else or caused great bodily harm. So I made the decision to shoot and I'm okay with that.
Speaker 2:So after everything was said and done, at Walmart, my corporal, who was my training officer when I first started at that police department, kind of brought me out of the store and into his squad car and almost immediately the media was there and we drove to the police department and kind of had a briefing and figured out what we were going to do. And once everything was said and done, I got to go home and I had a take-home squad car. So they had taken my gun, I was still in uniform and I hopped in my squad car and the first thing I did was I reached up into my visor because my cell phone was there and I wanted to call my mom and dad because they lived three and a half four hours away and I wanted them to hear it from me what happened, and not from the news, because it was all over the place. It was even in Minnesota. It was in other states that the shooting had happened. So that's the first thing that crossed my mind I need to call my mom and dad, let them know. And I remember calling them and I said I've been involved in a shooting, I'm okay. And then I drove home and later on I talked to my mom and she goes I didn't recognize your voice. I could tell you were in shock. You said you were okay, but I could tell you weren't.
Speaker 2:So I had driven home that night and the first thing I did was walk into my house. Nobody was there. I was divorced at the time and my daughters were with my ex-wife. And the first thing I did was walk in the house and I knelt down next to my love seat and I prayed to God that Melissa wouldn't die. I didn't want her to die Quite. Honestly, I didn't think she was going to die. She was laying on the ground and talking to paramedics and I didn't think she was going to die. So then I went into my bedroom, took all my gear off and I remember sitting at the foot of my bed and I just felt so heavy and I don't know why. Even with all my gear off, I felt so heavy. And once I was ready, I ordered a pizza, I turned on the news to kind of see what they were saying about me, even though everybody told me don't do that. I'm like I'm going to turn on the news anyways. And then I went to bed. I slept well, I think maybe because of the adrenaline dump, but then I woke up in the morning.
Speaker 2:This was Saturday. I had the weekend off because the investigation the part that I would participate in the investigation wouldn't start till Monday. And I thought to myself I need to do something normal today, if that's even possible after you shoot somebody. And I was going to go get my haircut and pick up my kids. And I'm walking out to my car and my chief called me and it was a typical hey, how are you doing? I'm doing good, when can you come in and talk to me? And I I said, well, I'm going to go get my haircut first and then pick up my kids, and then I can, I can come talk to you. And he said, adam, you know, I I didn't want to tell you this over the phone, but she died and that changed everything. And I respect the chief for telling me over the phone because, just like me wanting to tell my parents what happened. He wanted me to find out right away too, and not from the news or social media or a text message.
Speaker 2:But I remember getting off that phone call and sitting in my SUV and thinking this changes everything. I killed somebody. What's going to happen now? It's not just a shooting. I mean, I took somebody's life and so I remember going and getting my haircut. Barely the whole weekend was a blur. I remember going and speaking to my chief and he told me right away that he's going to release my police photograph. So he did that, that, and then I just I I guess I just went home for the weekend until monday happened yeah, you know, when you said that she had been speaking to the paramedics yeah, yeah and then you said that she had passed away.
Speaker 1:Like I felt a shock yeah, it was.
Speaker 2:I'm getting chills right now because every time I listen to that 911 call and I hear me yelling 276 county shots fired, law enforcement shots fired, send EMS. I remember being there. That changed everything Right. Then my life forever changed, and not only my life but her life and her mom and dad's life. And then we find out that she had a six-year-old daughter also, and at the time my daughters were younger. So I get it. It's not something I'm proud of.
Speaker 2:I didn't wake up that morning thinking I hope I go to work and shoot somebody. It's, you know, in law enforcement the possibility is there, but the probability, yeah, probably not. But that was my, my reality. I mean, I actually shot and killed somebody and I'm thinking what's going to happen next? You know, I all that unknown, you know. I remember Monday morning when I'm driving to the sheriff's department to be interviewed by different investigators. I remember driving there and being really worried because I'm thinking what if the video and the 911 call that we go over? I mean, what if it's not how I remember it, because there's a lot of stuff I remember and a lot of stuff I don't remember. And once we sat down and started listening to the 911 call and watching different videos. It was exactly how I remember. But even watching the videos you know Walmart has a lot of cameras and I remember seeing myself and thinking I don't remember doing that, but that's me doing what I was trained to do.
Speaker 2:And that's why training is so important, especially in law enforcement and first responders, because we work crazy hours. You know, we got to juggle around our schedule, our spouse's schedule, our kid's schedule and for me, for example, you know I would work third shift and then, after working 11 pm to 7 am, I might have to go to in-service from 8 am to 4 pm and it's like, come on, you know I'm sucking down energy drinks or coffee and I'm barely staying awake. I don't want to do this. I got to change the kid's schedules around at daycare. But it's so important to go to training because I'm a prime example. I watched myself on video do what I was trained to do, but some of it I don't remember. But I'm like that's me, because that's what my training taught me. So that's why it's so important.
Speaker 1:Those that witnessed the incident. I have to imagine there were witness statements taken. What did they say?
Speaker 2:I believe there was 12 witnesses and they all pretty much wrote the same thing. They wrote that I arrived, identified myself and that she had a hatchet. And then I don't remember this, but most of them said this in their statement that she was advancing towards me and the last thing she did was raise the hatchet above her head, and that's when I shot. I don't remember that. The last thing I remember is her making kind of a figure eight swooping motion and then I shot. But that that's not what everybody else said and I I'm not a psychologist, I don't get everything about the brain. But people tell me that's the part of my brain that's protecting me from that visual trauma, which is great. You know I've never had nightmares about that either. So the brain's wonderful, at least it's wonderful for me in this event. But you know they all wrote the same thing of what they witnessed.
Speaker 1:Was this the first officer involved shooting for you? It was.
Speaker 2:It was the very first officer involved shooting for me, the very first officer involved shooting for you. It was. It was the very first officer involved shooting for me, the very first officer involved shooting for the police department. You know, at the time I had never and I still have never used my pepper spray on anybody. I've never used my baton on anybody. I've used my tasers a handful of times, but over the years in my law enforcement career, I always prided myself in being able to talk people down and not use force. So that's something that I struggled with for many years after that. I wasn't good enough that I. You are good enough because you were able to make that decision, and this was a totally different incident than anything that you've ever experienced in your life. It's been nine years since my shooting and I know that I did the right thing.
Speaker 1:Was it this incident, then? That was the straw that broke the camel's back, if you will, which led you down the dark path of making bad decisions.
Speaker 2:Absolutely it was. I was off duty for about 30 days, for about a month, which is typical, which is protocol. While you're investigating, then you have to be cleared by the district attorney's office. And they cleared me. They said my shooting was justified and then I went back to work and I had no doubt in my mind I was going to go back to work, I wanted to go back to work and maybe I went back to work a little bit too soon. I mean, looking back now you can always look back and woulda, coulda, shoulda, but at the time I felt like I was going back to work at the right time. But I did.
Speaker 2:I started suffering in silence, I started poorly coping and what I mean by that is I would abuse alcohol. You know, before my shooting I collected wine and I would have glasses of wine. But you know, after my shooting I went through those wine bottles really quick and then I went right to liquor and I went to vodka. I regularly drank a 750 milliliter bottle of vodka in 30 minutes or less, blacked out, and slept a day away. Bottle of vodka in 30 minutes or less, blacked out, and slept a day away. Before I would go somewhere grocery shopping an event, always off duty I never drank on duty but I would stop by the local gas station and I would buy two or three of those cinnamon whiskey shot bottles and I would drink two or three of them right in my car, in the parking lot, and then I would either throw them in the back of my car or I would throw them out the window while I was driving to my destination. You know wherever I was heading to, and I would say to myself you know, it would probably take about 30 minutes for alcohol to kick in, and then I would be wherever I needed to be. And that's not true. And down the road, there was a time that I even I think I drove about 40 miles, intoxicated, with my youngest daughter. I was picking her up at her mom's my ex-wife's house for gymnastics. After I had picked her up, we were going down the freeway and it was just a simple turn right to go towards gymnastics or turn left. Well, I turned left and I drove, I think, about 20 miles out of the way and I was intoxicated and I'm ashamed of that because that was my daughter. But the behavior it was just very self-destructive.
Speaker 2:And another way that I poorly coped is casual sex. I would meet women online mutually to have sex and sometimes within 30 minutes or less we'd be having sex. And for me, sex is fun, it's playful, it's exciting, it's something you share with somebody. That's important. But I guess I was just chasing that dopamine high or whatever. But I remember one time laying in bed with a woman after we had sex and I thought you got to stop this, adam.
Speaker 2:I started not liking myself, but that still wasn't enough for me to stop and I would always worry what if I get her pregnant, what if I catch an STD? But even that wasn't enough for me to stop. It took years for me to slow that down and stop. And you know, there was even, you know, a couple of times that I tried marijuana for the first time. I smoked marijuana and tried some marijuana gummies and a lot of people are like, oh, it's odd, no big deal, and I'm like but to me it is. It's a big deal. I always prided myself in never doing drugs, not even marijuana, all my life.
Speaker 2:So I continued this behavior for years and I suffered in silence and I find it hard to believe that nobody realized that this was going on. I can't speak for anybody, obviously, but I think they probably knew. They just didn't know what to say or do, so they chose not to do anything and not to get involved. Self-harm was another thing. One time I took a 12-inch crescent wrench and I banged my knee several times, enough to cause redness, abrasions, bruising, and then I went to the emergency room and I lied to them and I said I fell down the back steps, hit my knee on a manhole cover that covered the septic tank and they did x-rays and they gave me pain meds and a doctor's excuse and crutches and this was all to get out of work for the Fourth of July.
Speaker 2:And my chief at the time supported me a hundred percent and I feel I feel real guilty for lying to him. But I I think because of the stigma, I just felt like I was running out of excuses to not go to work. If I truly believe, if I would have went in and said, chief, something's not right. I don't know why, but I just can't work, I'm feeling triggered I'm sure he would have said it's okay, it's okay Adam, because he did it every other time. But I felt like I was running out of excuses, so my behavior was just self-destructive. It was harmful. I was pushing people away and I just didn't care. I was looking for the next way to cope, to make myself feel good, to numb the pain. Nothing else mattered to me. It's sad, but it was my reality for many years.
Speaker 1:As you're running out of excuses what are you running from?
Speaker 2:What are you deeply running from? That's a good question, because I'm not 100% sure. I think maybe not being good enough, killing somebody, taking somebody's mother from them, daughter from them, grandchild from them, taking somebody's life I know I did my job and I know I did the right thing, but it still doesn't make it easier. I mean I took somebody away from people that loved her. I mean she was struggling with mental health too, but that doesn't make it easy to do. It's not a normal thing to go and shoot and kill somebody and I think deep down I was just really struggling with that, even though I knew I did the right thing. I was just struggling with that.
Speaker 2:It's something that I think about every single day one way or another. I'm healthier now and doing much better now, positively coping in ways, but still it's something that lives with me forever. Some days I kind of get bummed out too, and some days, oh, today sucks or whatever. But I recognize it now, I understand it. But I think that's what I was running from. Maybe I was just running from all the feelings, all the emotions involved in it, and that's why I used alcohol, casual sex and marijuana to to numb that and it only made things worse. You know, momentarily it made things better, but it didn't fix anything.
Speaker 1:Did you want to die?
Speaker 2:Um, that's a real good question. I I did no-transcript, but at the time I don't think I wanted to die. I never thought you know what I want to kill myself. Today's it. But as I go back and you know, through therapy now because I do see a therapist and I do take medicine and it helps me and I learn a lot about my behavior and there's no other way to explain it that some way internally I wanted to.
Speaker 2:You know, god and I had some pretty. I was pretty pissed off at God. We had some pretty heated conversations. I prayed many times that I wouldn't wake up in the morning. You know, dear God, please let me not wake up. But he made me wake up every single day because he had other plans, kind of like tough, you're going to go through this because I got something else for you, if you like it or not, too bad, which I'm grateful for. So, yeah, I do. I think I did want to die. I just I never really had a plan and every time I thought about it I also thought about the people that loved me and the people who depended on me and needed me. So I think that got in the way of it. I truly believe that if I didn't have my daughters, I wouldn't be here speaking with you, john, I'd dead, because ultimately my girls need me more than anything. I mean my mom and dad and sister too. But I think my daughters really played a big role, probably bigger than they even realized.
Speaker 1:You know it's interesting, because one thing I hear as I talk to you is your empathy toward Melissa, toward her family, towards the witnesses in Walmart, towards everyone, and it's as though you were able to give empathy towards others, including strangers, but you weren't able to find that empathy for yourself and you suffered in silence and you suffered in silence.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree. I mean, I'm religious, I believe in God and I truly believe that when I die I'm going to heaven and then I'll meet Melissa and she won't be struggling with mental health, everything will be better and I hope she welcomes me with open arms and says thank you and everything's okay. Someday I would really like to meet Melissa's mom and dad, melissa's daughter, melissa's family. That's a part of me that I struggle with too, because I'm not a monster. I didn't go to work wanting to kill somebody and I think that would go a long way with healing, not only for me but for them.
Speaker 2:But if I ever decide to reach out the ball's in their court because maybe they don't want to have anything to do with me or meeting me, I do remember looking on Facebook, at Melissa's mom's Facebook account, and it seemed like they were struggling with finding the money to even bury her, her, and that's something that really hurt. Also because I can't. I can't imagine being at home and getting a phone call and finding out that your daughter died. I can't imagine getting a call finding out that the police killed your daughter. I just yeah, I have a lot of questions. Probably most won't be answered, but eventually I think they will be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, were you told not to reach out to the family, or?
Speaker 2:terminated from that police department. What happened was December 28th 2021, I went to a active shooter training at an elementary school and I was seated comfortably, like I am now, and we were watching a PowerPoint presentation about different active shooters in the United States over the years and overseas. And I started getting really hot and uncomfortable and a knot in my stomach. And about a minute passed and I reached out to my forehead and I was just drenched in water. I was sweating, I was having a panic attack and there's probably about 20 or 30 other police officers there and they all knew me. They knew I was involved in the shooting, they knew where I worked. But my first thought was I have to fight this and I have to hide it. I can't let anybody know that I'm having a panic attack. But it would have been okay I think it would have been okay if I would have said I'm struggling, I can't do this training, I need to go home. They probably would have said it's all right, adam, we get it. But my first thought I think because of that stigma is I got to fight this and I got to hide it. And I did. I went through the training, went on a couple of days off after the training and then I went to work a patrol shift on New Year's Eve and I was a detective at the time. I was promoted to the very first detective on the police department a year after my shooting. So I was in uniform and I started my shift on New Year's Eve. The same time I started my shift on my shooting, I sat down in my ER car or my police car and I started getting things set up and I was like you know what I'm done, I quit, I ain't doing this no more. And I don't think I wanted to quit being a cop. I think I wanted to quit coping the way I had been over the years because it wasn't working for me anymore. And I recognize that I just was done. I'm done, I'm not doing this no more. And I reached out to a sergeant that I knew and I said I need you to come with me to the chief's office. I'm quitting, I ain't doing this. He's hold up a second, you're not going to quit, I'll meet with you. And we went and talked to the chief and this was a different chief. It wasn't the same chief that was with me during my shooting because he had retired after 30 plus years. So the new chief and the sergeant, they were supportive. They were like go home, take as much time as you need, let me know when you're ready to come back to work. And I think it was about two weeks.
Speaker 2:I reached out to the chief and I said I'm ready to come back to work and he said well, the only way that you can do that is you need to take a psychological evaluation, a fitness for duty test. And I was like all right, yeah, I'm a strong mental health advocate. I had been speaking about my mental health since 2019. This was now, you know, 2022. So I had I set up that appointment and I remember the day of the appointment, driving there, and I thought to myself I'm going to lie, I'm going to try to beat this test, I don't need to take any kind of freaking test, I'm fine, I don't need to do this. And then I got there and I'm in the waiting room and I thought the only way you're going to get better at them is if you be honest. You have to be honest with everything. And I chose to be honest and the tests were from 9 am to 4 pm. There was no lunch, no break all these different tests.
Speaker 2:And after that test, I was diagnosed with major depressive disorder, ptsd, acute stress with dissociative features, and I was unfit for duty and I couldn't go back to work. So I requested a 90-day leave of absence and I began getting better. I mean, it was like a nine-page unfit-for-duty explanation and I was reading it and I was crying because that explained everything about me over the years. Those are the answers I needed. I'm like all right, how do I got to get better? What do I got to do now? And I was going to therapy two, three times a week. I wasn't missing any appointments.
Speaker 2:You know this was in January, february, march and April of 2022. And in April 2022, I was put on a safety plan because there were some suicidal ideations in this unfit for duty examination, the psychological evaluation. And you know, it's different when it happens to you, because I was always there for other people who were in crisis, and this was me. It's different now and and I was okay with it, but it's just different when you're going through it. And so then, also that same month, one of the sergeants came out to my house.
Speaker 2:I didn't live in the community, I lived outside in a different city and he came out to my house. I didn't live in the community, I lived outside in a different city, and he came out to my house and gave me a cease and desist order to immediately cease and desist, speaking about my personal mental health when it comes to my shooting, and said it makes the police department look bad and if you don't stop talking about it, you're going to be disciplined or terminated. And that scared the hell out of me. I'm thinking I've been doing this since 2019. And now you're telling me to shut up about it. So I did, I stopped, I shut down my website, I stopped speaking and then my 90-day leave of absence expired and my chief called me in and we had a meeting and he told me we're not extending your absence. You can either resign or you're going to be terminated.
Speaker 2:So I thought it over and I chose not to resign. I was thinking you know, I've been here for 14 years. I have never been disciplined. I had never been suspended. I received medals, awards, citations I mean all this good stuff. The first detective, the first shooting in the history of the police department. I was cleared from the shooting. The lawsuit against me was even dropped. Everything was.
Speaker 2:I just couldn't believe it and I chose not to resign. So I was terminated and I remember being walked out of the police department thinking what am I going to do now? My lifelong dream to be an ERCAR man, a police officer, is over, because I did my job and I suffered with mental health and I truly feel like they just washed their hands of me, like Adam's not our problem anymore and that was it. So yeah, I mean, I mean I just I couldn't believe it. And then, on top of that, nobody at the police department reached out, texted me, called me, emailed me nothing. I was completely ghosted by everybody and it's been almost three years now and still nobody communicates with me. And that hurts, because these men and women were on life and death calls together and they knew me, they knew my kids, they knew my family to help me move and when I really needed support they weren't there for me and that still hurts.
Speaker 1:I can't imagine. But what I will say is that we are going to let you get your story out there again today. Yeah, speak loud. All right, I got your back. I have a question. In 2019, that's when you began to start speaking of mental health issues At that point, were you still drinking heavily, having casual sex, things of that nature? So while you were speaking about mental health, you still were. Maybe it was camouflaging.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I was what's the word that best describes that? A hypocrite. I mean, I was kind of acting like things were better and they weren't, but I was still trying to get my story out there to help others. But I was still struggling. You know, after becoming a detective, I was the only detective, so I continued to go to homicides, suicides, fatal crashes and other critical incidents. So on top of my trauma from my shooting, I was having all this cumulative trauma stacking on top of it too. And I was still able to do my job, get awards, do a good job. But I was on my days off.
Speaker 2:I was poorly coping for years. My pastor at the time he's passed away, but he reached out in support of me and I told him to F off publicly on Facebook and I don't remember doing that. But I remember the next day reading my messages and I'm like, oh my God, I I told my pastor to, you know, to F off. And you know there were police officers that were reading this and I remember going back to work and they had mentioned something to me. But I really think it was hey, if Adam needs help, he's going to reach out. Otherwise everything's kind of status quo, keep doing your thing. And and I wasn't going to reach out, I wasn't going to ask for help. I thought I could handle it myself. I figure you know, if I just keep going, things will fall into place, things will work out. But that's not true. I needed help and I wasn't going to ask for it.
Speaker 1:That's common, sadly, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, more common than people realize.
Speaker 1:yeah, the psychological test yielded what you call the book of answers. Do you still have that book?
Speaker 2:I do. Yep, it described like self-isolating may have difficulty with relationships. It described like self-isolating may have difficulty with relationships. I mean it just kind of yeah, it was full of real good stuff. Like I said, I cried when I read it. I wasn't super happy about it. I mean, I was happy in a sense that it explained, it described me and it helped me understand more. But reading that was kind of a gut check, kind of a hey Adam, this is you, now this is your opportunity to get better. And by doing this you're putting yourself first and now it's time. So it wasn't easy to do, but it was important to do.
Speaker 1:Out of curiosity, have you brought that book back out and looked at it and check off? Oh, I am better here. I'm better here, I'm better here.
Speaker 2:I actually have it right here. I am better. And after I was terminated I went home that afternoon. I didn't know what I was going to do. Unfortunately, my insurance didn't provide any kind of financial support. I didn't get workers' compensation, I didn't get short-term disability. Last year I had to file from bankruptcy because I couldn't catch up with my finances.
Speaker 2:But I remember communicating with my sister. Her name's Amy. She's a year and a half younger than me and she's like what are you going to do? And I'm like I don't know, amy, I have no idea. And she goes why don't you move down here? And I told her, I said I hardly have any money, I can't do that. And she goes Adam, all you have to do is get down here and we'll take care of the rest. So I did that. I moved down there and moved into my sister's basement. We joked that, hey, at least it ain't mom and dad's basement. And I wasn't seeing a therapist at the time. I had weaned off my medication and I knew I wasn't doing. Okay. My sister was on the outside looking in, looking at her big brother and knowing that I needed therapy, knowing that I needed to get back into therapy and medicine, and so, behind my back, she was looking for a therapist for me. And no hard feelings, I'm completely blessed. I love the heck out of her. She found a therapist and the therapist that I see today.
Speaker 2:I finally put myself first and got healthy. And it's difficult for first responders police officers because we always put everybody else first, we don't take care of ourselves. And I finally did that. And then after a year about I said you know what? I still want to be a cop. Once I got healthier I knew I still wanted to be an ERCAR man, I wanted to be a police officer and so I started applying. I started applying at other police departments and I sent applications out to 50 police departments. And the next day after mailing those applications out, I started getting emails and phone calls. People wanted to interview me and I'm like wow, because I have a lot of training and experience. I have a lot of experience that most officers don't have, especially when it comes to my shooting and mental health. So in a two-week period, three police departments in three separate counties offered me conditional offers of employment and I picked, picked one, and that's why I work now.
Speaker 2:Shortly after I was hired, I was promoted to captain and my chief now, sean McGee, is great. He absolutely supports me. We have a lake patrol at the police department. We were out on our boat and he's like you know what, adam? I know that you speak publicly about mental health. I support you. If you want to keep doing that, I support you. You can even wear your police uniform if you want to do it. And I'm thinking, wow, okay. And we also have a therapy dog named Howie, so I love him. He's great. So it's just a blessing in disguise.
Speaker 2:And why has this all happened? Because I finally put myself first, got the right kind of help, got healthy, and now I'm back on the job and I truly believe this journey is. This is what God wants me to do. I absolutely have no doubt in my mind. I went through hell. He wanted me to go through all that, to be here talking to you, jen, to sharing my story, to yeah, I mean I'm a better cop now. I'm a better father, a better person, healthier, better it's. Yeah, I mean I still have my days, but I'm doing good. I want people to know that it's okay to talk about your mental health and that they're not alone and they don't have to suffer in silence. There's so many resources out there. There's so many people out there even complete strangers that want to help, and not just because they're getting paid, but because they're good people, they genuinely care and they want to help.
Speaker 1:Can you tell our audience how to find you? You?
Speaker 2:can visit me at StopTheThreatStopTheStigmaorg. My email address is there, adam, at StopTheThreatStopTheStigmaorg, and you can also find my phone number there. You can call me, you can text me. I look forward to hearing from anybody. If they need something, please reach out.
Speaker 1:Adam, thank you so much for finally putting yourself first. I think that is the perfect message to end our conversation on today. Thank you for being my guest on the I Need Blue podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you, jen, it's been my pleasure. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Thank you for listening. This is Jen Lee with the I Need Blue podcast. Remember you are stronger than you think. Until next time you.
